Marketing for Acupuncturists: Patient-Attracting Tips from Michelle Grasek [Episode 121]

Molly: You are gonna absolutely love this episode. So I am interviewing Michelle Grassic. She is an acupuncturist in a small town in upstate New York. I got connected with Michelle through my friend Kate Matheson, who a lot of people in my audience know her as well. So if you don't go check out Kate Matheson, but I just found this interview so refreshing.

I do very minimal screening. I shouldn't say that. It makes it sound like I, like let just anybody come on my podcast, but I just, I don't know. I'm just like a, such a gut instinct person. And if it's somebody Kate trusts, I'm like, cool. So I really didn't do a whole lot of like, uh, like I said, researcher screening before.

I was like, Hey, come on my podcast. I mean, obviously I did a little bit more before I actually interviewed her, but she's just so lovely and so many of the things that she talks about are so aligned with the way I teach things too. And obviously I don't wanna like get caught in this echo chamber of like, Hey, there's just one way to do things.

I've definitely had guests on the show that make me a little bit uncomfortable with some of the things that they're saying. 'cause I'm like, Ooh, I don't know. Michelle and I are just, I feel like we are just so aligned. So Michelle is actually an acupuncturist. Who still is practicing, but she also has a course called Acupuncture Marketing School, and if you are an acupuncturist, she created a coupon code for me.

It's just Holistic Hub is the coupon code and it'll get you $200 off her acupuncture marketing school. It's very complimentary to the hub because she doesn't go into a lot of Instagram marketing stuff. So like if you're looking for more Instagram and then like copy paste, acupuncture, chiropractic, health content, then you want to be in the hub.

But then also, like I said, acupuncture, marketing school covers. A lot of things that I don't cover, just from kind of like the basics from finding your ideal client avatar to email marketing and reactivation, getting patients quickly, all of that. So yeah, so just check that out in the show notes. Or you can literally just Google acupuncture marketing school or Michelle Grasse, G-R-A-S-E-K.

Again, the code's a holistic hub and you get $200 off acupuncture marketing school. So, uh, full disclosure, I am an affiliate, but like I said, I trust me, like after this interview I was like, oh, we gotta collaborate more. 'cause I like, just loved our conversation. So, couple things you can expect from today's episode.

We talk about overcoming marketing fears, like people who kind of really are just afraid to put theirselves out there. Even if that's not you, that's only one small part of what we talk about. We talk about patient reactivation and email marketing. We talk about ways to get new patients quickly. We talk about ideal patient avatars and target markets.

And then we also talk, 'cause this is a, this is a topic that comes up a lot. We talk about marketing strategies for small towns because she's in a really small town and she has built this amazing practice. So obviously if you're not in a small town, everything we talk about, it's still applicable to you.

It's just even easier. I think you will find this conversation full of really easy to implement action items. It's not gonna be like, oh my God, now I have to go figure out what in the heck they're talking about. I think you'll be able to listen and be like, ah, I can do this right away. So I wanna go ahead and get into the episode.

Um, without further ado, I hope you well, I always say without further ado, it's like not something I say in my real life. Can I imagine walking up to a friend? Without further ado, let's head to dinner. But anyway, here's the episode. Thanks guys for always bearing with me.

Hey, welcome to Holistic Marketing Simplified. This podcast boils down to the fact that we wholeheartedly believe that more humans need to know about holistic health solutions. And you didn't go to school to learn how to be a full-time content creator and show up on Instagram and do all of this marketing stuff all day, every day.

So let's come hanging out while we chat. All things easy in your marketing and my goal is that you shift your mindset around your marketing from a quote should to a I get to more dream patients and clients. Yes, please.

Dr. Amy: Hi, I'm Dr. Amy forrester and I'm a chiropractor in Kenosha, Wisconsin. And I listen to the Holistic Marketing Simplified podcast.

Molly: Okay, Michelle, I am so excited to chat with you on the show because I feel like I get so many chiropractor guests and I love all my chiropractors. I'm so excited to have. An acupuncturist. 'cause I had Clara Cohen on, do you know Clara? Yeah. A little over a month ago. And that episode was a huge hit. Lots of downloads.

So, um, and I'm starting to get more and more acupuncturists into my program, so I'm so happy to have you on the show. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. So tell us a little bit about you so people can paint the picture.

Michelle: So I am an acupuncturist. I have been in practice for a little over 13 years, and I teach marketing to other acupuncturists.

So I've been doing that for goodness, 10 years, 11 years. It's wild, and I never anticipated enjoying marketing so much or. Teaching it to other people. So it's been, it's been very exciting. I like to approach it from the angle that marketing can feel really genuine and generous. I know authentic is such an overused word in the marketing industry, but I really believe that people can create authentic marketing that reflects their values and attracts the people they love to take care of.

That can help them get more visible in their community because it's all about impact, right? We just want to have more impact on the people who are surrounding us in our local area. So that is the way that I like to teach marketing.

Molly: I love that. And I was just on your podcast and we were laughing how we were like, isn't it so lovely when you get somebody on who just.

Like teaches things similarly to you and you're like, oh, see, I told you I'm not crazy. Right. I don do. I mean, I've definitely had some guests on the show that I've kind of had some things where I'm kind of like sweating a little bit. Like, Ooh, I don't know. But then I'm, I'm saying that to say that's a good thing.

Like I obviously don't want an echo chamber, but I also think that there can be some, I don't know, icky. Toxic marketing advice out there, and so it's really great to connect with people who, who get it.

Michelle: Yeah, and it's, it's very validating because I think, you know, holistic wellness, people don't love marketing is not why they went into wellness.

And I know sometimes I get a little pushback when people are anxious about the word visibility. I'm like, get more visible in your community. And they're like, I just threw up in my mouth a little and then I'm giving them what I think is really good advice. And like gentle, right? Like baby steps. They're still pretty nervous about it, and I'm like, gosh, is there a better way I could be teaching it?

And then when I hear you saying the same exact thing, I'm like, okay, we're doing this right. It's just, you know, it's hard when you're new to marketing and you are nervous about visibility. It really is those baby steps. It just takes, it takes time to get used to the concepts and, and to accept that it's okay for people to see you.

Molly: What I've always found odd about that, 'cause I, I hear the same thing from a lot of my people is I. You have, you provide such an intimate service that why wouldn't people want to see your face before they book an appointment with you? Um, they don't wanna see a stock image of someone looking in or a stock image of some, like they wanna see you, even if it's not the best.

Picture or crappy lighting or whatever, that's, it's still gonna be better than a stock photo of someone else in another place getting acupuncture or getting a massage or getting, you know, adjusted. Like it's just people wanna connect with you and when there are other people they can choose from. The marketplace, like visibility is just kind of a non-negotiable

Michelle: and you know, if you think about marketing as building trust and, and breaking down like their doubts and their barriers and building a relationship, that sense of community, then being the person who's going to be treating them is really pretty important.

I also like to tell my students that people want to be able to imagine themself in your office. Yeah, it's not necessarily like a conscious desire, like I wish I could picture myself getting needles in my face, but they need to be able to picture themselves. That space with you, and if there's just not enough information about your office or who you are or they just can't find any details, it just is another hurdle for them to get over before they feel like, okay, I trust you enough to make a financial investment to trust you with my very personal healthcare information.

That sort of thing.

Molly: So how do you, right now, what does that look like? Balancing your time between being with patients versus doing the marketing coaching?

Michelle: So I am in clinic, uh, Monday, Tuesdays, and then the rest of the work week I have acupuncture marketing school, which is, uh, an online program that where I walk everybody through their marketing, like step-by-step, like really break it down so that there's a live version and there's a prerecorded version.

And then I have my podcast. It's the same name, acupuncture marketing school, which I thought was very clever at the time. I was like easy to remember. But it turns out people are sometimes like, wait, this is in acupuncture marketing school, the podcast or the online class? And I'm like, shoot. Okay. Noted.

Molly: Oh, well I, okay, good to know.

'cause I actually was. When I was doing my research on you before I was on your show yesterday, I was like, oh, that's really smart that she named it the same.

Michelle: Maybe most people are fine with it and they don't, it doesn't confuse them, so they don't bring it up. But just occasionally people are like, wait, what are we referring to?

Molly: Okay. I could, I could see what you're saying now. Yeah. Mine has similar name, you know, like holistic marketing hub versus like holistic marketing simplified. So yeah, there is some continuity, but like I said, when I saw your name, I, I thought it was smart. So good to know that I'll take it. So what do you feel like people, I'm just gonna go ask a couple basic questions.

What do you feel like PE people need to have in place? And obviously this isn't just for acupuncturists, any kind of brick and mortar health provider, what do you feel like they need to have in place before they start mar Um, implementing marketing strategies?

Michelle: I definitely think it's important to know your target market and your ideal patient avatar.

I think this is very unsexy information. Lots of people will tell me, yes, I've done those worksheets and then I recycled them. I didn't know what, like I didn't know how to make that information practical, like how do I actually translate it on my website or on my Instagram account? And there are, there are ways that people can do that, but I think that man, it makes your marketing so much more effective and efficient.

If you know who you're speaking to before you actually start, for example, building a website, that's probably the best example because when you know your ideal patient avatar, it's almost like I. You can have a conversation with them in your marketing and everything that you write or create is going to be very specific for this person's, you know, the, the symptoms that they have, the struggle it's causing in their life, the outcome that they would like, like what is their goal, and you can also connect it to their values.

Which I think makes it really levels up your marketing when you can take those questions one step further. So instead of saying, well, you know, my ideal patient has back pain and they wanna get out of pain because pain is crappy, and you're like, okay, of course. Like of course it sucks. Why do they wanna get out of pain?

Like what's so important to them that they wanna continue doing that the pain is interfering with? So the best real life example that I can ever think of, which I loved is years ago I had an older man come to my office for acupuncture and he had osteoarthritis in his knees and he said, I am here because my daughter and her family and the my grandkids, they're going to Disney World in two months.

And it's a lot of concrete and we're gonna be standing and walking all day and I just don't know if I can do it and I really don't wanna hold them back. So I was thinking of maybe I shouldn't go, or maybe I'll stay in the hotel. So he's like, I just wanna see how much progress we can make in two months and then hopefully, you know, I won't be a burden to them more or less, and I can go on this trip.

So you're like thinking about, okay, he doesn't just want his knee pain to go away because. It's painful. He wants it to go away so that it can align with his values of spending time with his family, right, and not feeling like a burden. So I always ask my students to try to connect to something on a deeper level, but you really have to know your ideal patient pretty well in order to identify that for them.

So it takes a little kind of digging and storytelling, and your ideal patient doesn't have to be a real person. I think most people end up with, and you can let me know what you think, a combination of a patient they have or have had in the past and maybe some imaginary traits that they also wish that person had, and then they, they kind of make this like 50 50 real and imaginary person.

Molly: So I agree with you. And it also I think depends, like if you're brand new and you're just starting out, I always say like, you can go to someone who you admire in the field. Look at their Google reviews. And that can always kind of help inform, you know, not saying you're trying to copy someone else, but I'm just like, that can kind of help get your creative juices flowing.

But I love what you said so much, and it's actually a messaging exercise that I walk people through as well. It's like, what can't they do because of this symptom? And that's one that people are always like, Ooh, like okay, I wanna be able to sit on the floor and do a puzzle with my grandkids. And the pushback that I typically get is, oh, that's like so specific.

I'm gonna alienate a lot of people. It's like, no, people are smart enough to make that leap. Like they're smart enough to go from, oh, I wanna go on the Disney vacation with my grandkids. Put that through to like even a person who doesn't have grandkids and wants to start being able to go on walks in their neighborhood, like people are smart enough to make that connection.

Michelle: Yeah. I always feel like they don't have to have everything in common with your ideal patient avatar. They just need to have a couple of things in common in order to see themself in your marketing. And I always find that if people sort of blast out, a really vague message, very common in acupuncture is, you know, acupuncture for pain management.

And that's like the whole message. Like we, we treat all kinds of pain, which is true, right? That's really the bread and butter for a lot of people. It's so vague that it doesn't get the attention of any single person. It sort of goes over everybody's head because they don't know if it applies to them and there's no hook.

There's nothing that says, oh, that sounds like. Exactly what I need, or that's exactly what I was saying to my friend yesterday. That is my exact complaint that I was telling my mom. Yes. So that's really what grabs people and that makes them take action at a higher rate. And for most of us, the action we want is like, click the book now button or call my office do the thing.

Otherwise we're just sort of, you know, sending out a, a really vague message or we're educating people very broadly. We're not inspiring them to take an action based on their values and the outcomes that they want.

Molly: I love that you said that about educating very broadly because Definitely, I always tell people, I'm like, it's not that you don't need educational content, but it's the way that it's packaged.

Like I. Now, if this was like 2016 Instagram, you could definitely get away with like five reasons you should get acupuncture. Like that kind of stuff. Actually used to not, it was good on Pinterest too, and Facebook. Yeah. It just doesn't, those are the days. Yeah, it just doesn't anymore. Because that, I always say like, if it's something that someone can Google easily, your content is not providing any extra.

Value. And they're like, well, who are you Michelle? Why are you telling me fiber? You know, so you've really got to, I'd love to hear your take on this. I always talk about infusing your authority into your messaging and why that, you know, you're, you need to listen to me like I'm the person who qualified to talk to you about this.

I dunno if you have anything you wanna share on that topic.

Michelle: Oh, that's interesting. I always think of that in terms of social proof. So for my acupuncture practice, oh, and I forgot to mention that I have an associate who's in my practice two days a week as well. So between the two of us, we have four days a week open at the practice.

I do all of the marketing for the practice, obviously, 'cause I love it so much and that's, that's my jam. I will often take screenshots of new Google reviews and put them together into an Instagram post and I'm constantly updating on our Instagram bio. 90 plus five star Google reviews. Oh, now we're at 95 plus.

Because I do feel like that is a reason that people should listen to what we're saying in those Instagram posts. Social proof is really significant. I don't usually think of it in terms of saying. Like more traditional authority would be like, here are all the degrees after my name, right? Yeah. Right.

Because that, and I find that makes most acupuncturists super uncomfortable if you were to ask them to bring that up. But I think it doesn't hurt every once in a while to post about. What is required to become an acupuncturist? Because it's really surprising for most patients or potential patients to learn that it's a three year, year round degree, so it's typically eight or nine full semesters, which is I.

A bachelor's degree in length. Right. You know, it's a lot of being in clinic before you graduate, so it's not like you have one semester of of clinic and then you graduate. So it's like usually reassuring for patient patients to learn that, you know, it took, we'll say four years total to. Learn how to put needles in you.

And I practiced for three years before I graduated because most of the people that I bump into tend to think acupuncture's like a six month certificate. Like very similar to a massage education, but it's sharp needles and it's invasive in that way. So I find that it can help build authority a bit to occasionally mention that.

And the tone is very important too. Like I'm just sharing this so that you feel better about me putting needles in you. Yeah. Sometimes people get defensive about their education, and acupuncturists have fought very hard to be respected in healthcare, and so obviously I always encourage staying away from the, like, I'm sharing this with you because I feel defensive about it.

How do you tell people to infuse that authority or why they should listen to you in the posts?

Molly: Well, first of all, I love exactly what you just, you just got my wheels turning. I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, I need to, we need, we, it's been a while since we've done any posts like that for any of our clients, so I'm like, Ooh, we need to do that.

I, exactly what you just said, like, we actually have a real, that we make often for our clients where we screenshot a bunch of their five star Google reviews, crop them, and then put 'em on a reel where it's like. X amount, 155 star reviews don't lie. And we like just kind of pop 'em all up at different times on the reel.

Yeah. So that's, we very similar to what you said, but also I like to just in the messaging rather than saying like three tips, you know, three ways to heal your migraines. It can be very different where you was like, I was with my patient today, who has been suffering from migraines and this is what we, you know, the social, like you said, the social proof of like, oh no, she's actually chat.

GPT didn't write this. Like she actually, and I'm not hating. I love ai. I use it every day. I just mean, I mean, no. So like I said, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying like there's a huge difference in three ways, three natural ways to help your migraines versus like. I was with my patient today, and here's how we're combating her.

Migraines naturally. Same message to very different packages. Like they feel like, oh, let me listen, because she's actually doing this with a real person.

Michelle: Sometimes brand new graduates will ask me. Basically they, they wanna know how they can imply authority when they've been out for like four months and they feel like they're terrified.

Someone's gonna ask them, you know, how long have you been in practice? And they'll be like. So I always tell them to position it from their experience because they, as I mentioned, there's a ton of clinic time before you graduate. So to, and, and not trying to be like, not truthful, but to position it so that they're saying, you know, I've spent three years in clinic, in school.

And to talk about their specific experience with whatever the person's symptom is. So like, yes, I have seen acupuncture work really well in clinic for migraines, even if they are brand new. And what they really wanna say is, I've only been in practice two months. Don't trust me. Like, no, no, no, no. You actually have a lot of clinical experience, but it's, it's how you angle it.

And I think that it's really smart the way that you phrased it, because it that authority from experience, I think people really underestimate the impact that has on potential patients.

Molly: Yeah. You could even say something like, my mentor, like my mentor just had this patient who had been having like, like.

And that's still, I'm still listening to you because you're, that's your mentor and you're learning from this person. Right? And you

Michelle: were probably in

Molly: the

Michelle: room

Molly: while they were taking care of this person. You saw exactly what they did. A hundred percent. I love that you're talking about some students, 'cause I get that question a lot.

It's like, well if I'm just starting out, I don't know if you've seen this, but I've seen a lot of students who've started their personal brand, like Instagram or whatever, while they're in school, come out with such a leg up on everyone else because they've already started establishing themselves as an authority in the space.

Michelle: Sure. And they have so much more experience with how to create content, what kind of content people are looking for. They have a lot more confidence in their content creation, their, you know, caption, writing, et cetera. Yeah, I think they, they definitely are ahead of the game, especially if they know where they wanna practice and they can start making that content location specific.

Not everyone can do that, but if you can. That's, that's the way go.

Molly: Yeah. Like you said, even if you can't, you know, even if it's just like you building up your personal brand and the only people watching your stuff is your Aunt Betty and your mom. Like, who cares? Yes. Like, who cares? Like, you're, you're like you said, you're flexing that muscle.

You're learning. And then when you do say, okay, I am open for business, you've got this whole history of he or she, like, they've already been doing this. So you talked about, okay, so let's go back. You said you wanna know who you're. Ideal patient avatar is, do you have any like fun tips or exercises that you like to lead people through to.

Kind of figure that out besides the stuff we've already talked about.

Michelle: Well, I, I love putting together worksheets. I'm not like my poor students. I'm like, I, I made a worksheet for you. And they're like, okay, another worksheet. So I have a pretty groovy ideal patient avatar worksheet. I think really the easiest way to approach that is think about someone that you just feel so lit up to spend time with in clinic and ask yourself if you would feel really satisfied if you had 40 of them per week.

If we're considering 40 to be full-time, just imagine, you know, the symptoms that this person has and also. Think about the way that they respond to your advice. Hopefully your ideal patient will follow any dietary advice that you give them, or if you teach them Qigong exercises, really the important thing is that they understand the value of what you're teaching them, and they're invested in their health, and they're also willing to make a financial investment, right?

Your ideal patient will not give you a hard time being on a wellness program or whatever you would like. That's kind of where the. Imagine your favorite person to treat now and then if you need to, you can give them some extra traits.

Molly: Yeah, and I like, um, one thing I think a lot of people get wrapped up on is like the hard demographics of the person.

Yeah. And I think that's can, I mean it can be helpful in some ways, but I think to me, and it's not about a hard demographic of must make this amount of income or more me, it's more like values, spending money on their health like this. That's. Where you wanna go with it versus like, female over 35 makes this much disposable.

It's like, no, someone who, or I even heard somebody, gosh, I'm gonna butcher exactly how they said it, but it was so brilliant. They're like, our ideal patient is just somebody who's fed up with conventional healthcare and they are willing to do whatever it takes to get better. And that's basically it. And I was like, that's pretty darn good.

Like, you know what I mean? Like I could run with that. So it doesn't have to be. I think a lot of people think like traditional, like drives a white minivan and is 35 and has two and a half kids and a dog, and like not saying any, like I said, not saying any of that's bad, but. It could be more of like those psychographic type, is that in that, what it's called, like psychographics versus demographics?

Yeah, I think that I could be wrong. You'll fact check me be like, Isha, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm almost positive that's what it's called. And especially, actually, this is the next thing I wanted to ask you. I didn't prep you for this, like hope you're okay with this, but you're in a small town and so a lot of the pushback I get is, oh, well I'm in a small town.

My answer to that is usually, well, good for you. 'cause now that small town is part of your niche, like. You just, your marketing becomes way more community centered and like that becomes part of your niche. So I'd love to hear what you say to like, but I'm in a small town. I don't wanna have this really narrow focus.

You

Michelle: definitely have to embrace the people in the town, first of all, as you're saying, right? Like because you, you know what their arguments for and against acupuncture are going to be. I live in a town of 7,000 people and there's two other acupuncture practices in town. We're like within a mile and a half of each other.

I remember when the one person moved her practice into town and then she was like 0.3 miles away and I was like, oh, you are literally our neighbor. It doesn't really matter because we have very different demographics. We have very different ideal patients, so I can speak to the people in the town because I know them well and like I said, I know their arguments for and against acupuncture, and I think it's also important to consider where you're going to pull patients from nearby and try to get to know those towns as well.

I do a lot of marketing in towns that are up to 35 minutes away. And we have cosmetic acupuncture as our specialty. For me and the associate, we'll have people who drive up to an hour for cosmetic acupuncture because there's really no, no other practice that says straight up, we specialize in cosmetic acupuncture.

Within like three hours, you, you really have to go downstate or to one of the bigger cities, like in Canada or in Pennsylvania. I. It's important to tell people that it's reasonable to expect to pull people towards you. Like it's okay for people to drive. The smaller the town, the more people are willing to drive because there's nothing.

Yeah, so I remember when I lived in Rochester, which is pretty big city, about an hour from here, people would not drive 20 minutes, more than 20 minutes for anything because you could find every single thing that you needed within a five minute radius. So I was an acupuncturist on like the north side of the city in a town called, called Aranda cot.

And people on the south side of the city were like, oh, I can't drive 25 minutes to see you. And I grew up in a town of 4,000 people where it was 25 minutes to the grocery store. So it was like if you wanted to go anywhere, you had to drive at least 25 minutes. So I think the smaller the town just plan on pulling people from further afield and that's normal and they will come to you.

But you have to be willing to market out further and further. You have to have faith that people do want to drive to see you.

Molly: That's such a good point. I never thought about the difference in, I, um, I drive to my acupuncturist like 22. It's like 22 minutes. And to me that feels crazy close. Like I feel super fortunate that I have someone that skilled that close to me.

But when my mom was here visiting. My mom was like, God, you'd think there'd be somebody closer. You're in such a big town. And I'm just like, isn't that funny how everyone has, I'm like, oh, that's so close. How lucky am I that she's so close to me? She, she's, she has people, she's cosmetic too, um, and does other, but she, I mean infertility and stuff, but she has people drive for hours to see her.

Michelle: One patient who comes from Pennsylvania. It's about a two hour drive. She went to school in this area. So it's like when she comes back to visit her former classmates who still live here, she also, she makes a day of it and she gets acupuncture first. But it blows my mind because she's in a city where there's plenty of acupuncturists, but she still chooses us.

So I, I think people just need to have faith that. It's going to work and people will be willing to drive to see you.

Molly: Oh gosh. I absolutely love that. So how do, what does marketing look like for you in these other cities? Like we talked about having like hyper, you know, local marketing. So yeah, I'd love to hear your take on that.

Michelle: What it looks like Oh, oh, for me to market in those other places. Mm-hmm. So I am a big fan of Chamber of Commerce, even though I am an introvert. I find networking difficult, like mixing and mingling is a concept that really does not process with my brain. However, I basically have made friends at these meetings, so now there's always someone that I can talk to, right?

I'm not standing there awkwardly, so I am a member of Chamber of Commerce in one of the nearby cities, it's like 30 minutes. And as a result of that, we do get patients. Just because they know me, right? It's it's building community. It's building relationships. They'd rather come to my practice because they've had a conversation with me versus go to someone right in their town because that person's a stranger.

Molly: Even if they haven't had a conversation with you, if their friend has had a conversation with you and they're like, oh, I met Michelle. You should try her. They're like, okay. Like I'm way more likely to be like, sure. Rather than. Still going to the person who, like I said, no, I, there's no validation of who this person is.

Michelle: Yeah. Especially if it's a treatment where the person's going to be touching you. Yeah. Right. So acupuncture, chiropractic, massage. It's so nice to have some. Degree of connection with this person. Either your friend that you trust or you met them in person because they're gonna put their hands on you. And not everybody wants that from a total stranger.

Now, when I travel, I love to find like a new acupuncturist and a new chiropractor. I'm like, Hey, you know, I can only come one time because I'm on vacation. But do you mind like, I can't be a repeat patient, but I'd love to come see you. I have some friends who are like, you just let a stranger adjust you.

I'm like, oh my God. I love it.

Molly: I love that idea. I've never thought of that doing, I did just record a podcast on uh, well I re it was a replay 'cause I originally, it released during the holidays and it didn't. Obviously, you know how that is like with downloads. Yeah. But because we were military and we moved around a lot, I'm like, look, I've been to countless chiros Accu.

Yes. Massage worked. Health coaches, therapists. Physical therapy, you name it. So I recorded a whole episode on like, here's things that make me happy as a patient. Here's things I don't love as a patient or client. Um, I was very candid. I was like, oh, okay. Kind of hope none of these people. Listen to this.

I'm like, I kind of do. So yeah, I bet you that gives you such a, like, I bet that gives you so much insight for your course and your podcast because. You're getting that patient like firsthand experience of kind of like, Hey, here's what your customer journey should ideally look like.

Michelle: Yeah. And even for my practice, you know, you get a treatment somewhere and there are little things that you maybe don't like or something really impresses you and you think to yourself, gosh, why don't I implement this at my practice?

It's so professional. Or, you know, it's so luxurious, and then you go home with other good ideas,

Molly: man. Talk about a hack. Like if you don't have content, if you haven't created content around that, you should. Like, that's, that's like what all you know, I'm sure you come up with some great idea or come back with some great ideas and inspiration.

So, okay, here's like the million dollar question that everybody loves. Do you have advice for like getting new patients like ASAP?

Michelle: Sure. So I feel like whenever I have a new coaching client, this is their very first question. They wanna know, how can I get new patients? Like last week? Yeah, yeah. Yesterday.

So there's, there's two ways that I like to think about this, and one is think about where your current patients are coming from. Like what is that source? What is that funnel? If possible, double down on your efforts. So for most people, referrals are their number one source of new patients. I kind of challenge them to think creatively about how they could quote double down on that avenue because for referrals it's a, most people are doing nothing but to maybe add in the footer of your email newsletter.

Uh. Postscript. PS did you know we're accepting new patients. It's always an honor to take care of your funds and family. Please forward this to someone who needs this. Something like that? Yeah. To put a sign in your office at the front desk that says, did you know we're accepting new patients? To reach out to all of your healthcare and professional contacts and just sort of say hi, really make it about them.

Like wanted to ask like if there's any new ways I can support you. Anything I can do for you, but also to remind them like I'm, I'm accepting new patients because we think people are thinking about us and they are not. Right. So like put the idea in their head. You have to, like, sometimes you have to say the words like, we're, we're always accepting new patients.

Here's the kind of patients we like. What are your favorite kind of patients so I can refer them to you? Make it reciprocal.

Molly: I love that. And then too, like I'm a professional marketer and literally last week someone, a colleague, she does websites for acupuncturists and chiropractors and all that. So we refer business to each other.

She goes, Hey, let me know when the hub is open for enrollment again. I've got somebody. I was like, oh shoot. It's always open for enrollment. Like what am I doing in my, what am I doing in my messaging? And I do this for a living to make people think that it's not always available to join. And I'm actually glad, 'cause now I had kind of forgotten she said that and I haven't done anything about it.

You mean a little post-it? Well, this is my personality in a nutshell. This. This stresses a lot of people out, but, um,

Michelle: my God, that's what mine looks like. My crazy person know

Molly: the people who can't see the video. This is literally the printed off version of I had just done a. GI map test, like, like a gut, you know, the gut health test.

And this was like my protocol and I'd printed it out. And this is like me just putting random notes on the back of this protocol. And she's got, Michelle's got the same thing.

Michelle: I take scrap paper from my office and I just start writing these insane notes and they're never in order. They're like crisscrossing each other.

And then at the end of the week, I decipher them and I'm like, well, I didn't do that because, why did I write it like that? I don't even know what I meant.

Molly: I know, I, I'm like looking, I have like, send templates. What templates? Great. Hmm.

Michelle: Which ones into who?

Molly: Who am I sending templates to? I don't know. Um, yeah, I, and I always have like four different notebooks, like one on my nightstand and one here.

And I'm like, I should really just, but now I've, my latest thing that I've been doing is, um. With chat GBT, I've got like the paid version and have the app on my phone. I've been doing the advanced voice where you like talk to it. Have you done that yet? Yeah. So yeah, I'll just like talk to it and be like, Hey, like here's my to-do list.

Like help me categorize this question. I need to go do that again. Like I need to go round up all, I even have a shower notepad and there's a note on it right now that says like I'm doing some consulting for. A little outside of my norm. It's like some software that, a bunch of chiropractors or it's some technology that a bunch of chiropractors use.

And there's a note on my shower pad that says, keep company names blue, but elevate aesthetic.

Michelle: So I'm like, collect it. Yeah, you definitely have to collect all of those notes in one place. One,

Molly: yeah. But I just need to get head. Okay. The, like I said, the new patient conversation, let's. Reactivation and retention of patients, because I feel like that's something that's not talked about enough. Like it's like new, new, new when it's what, eight times cheaper to get to retain a current person.

Michelle: Yeah. And then the, actually I mentioned there was two things for the new patients. So the second thing is, no, that's okay. I just don't wanna forget. The second thing is really asking yourself, where do your patients spend time? In the real world and the digital world, and how can you get more visible more often in those spaces?

And you don't have to choose all of them, but maybe one like real world place, like a yoga studio, and then you could host an ACU yoga class, right? And then you're in front of all of these people who are already very health and fitness minded, right? They can appreciate like the energy of their body and how it makes them feel.

So they're great potential patients and you could get in front of them. And then maybe in the digital world you decide that it's um, like Instagram, right? And you're gonna make more of an effort to connect with other small businesses on Instagram, which is something that you mentioned yesterday on my podcast, is that business to business networking on Instagram is like a genius way.

To use that platform, but really just, so the two methods would be double down on what's already working. Like how can you systematize it? How can you really make an effort to increase referrals from that source? And then think about where are your people visible in the digital, sorry, where they spend time in the digital world and the real world, and how can you get in front of them?

And then in terms of reactivation, I also feel like this is super easy to systematize. I love systems because. You just saw my notes and they're bonkers. So I need, if I'm gonna actually do something, especially for marketing, for my practice, I like to have steps that I can follow and a timeline, and I find that that works well for most people.

So every six to eight weeks you can put on your patient calendar so that you can't pretend it doesn't exist, like block it off and give it the same importance as patient appointment to review the patients that you've had in that past eight weeks. And say, who has been so enthusiastic? You know, maybe who's someone who's been coming for like four to eight weeks and they've been consistently feeling good.

They love acupuncture. They're telling you how much better they feel, et cetera. So these are like the slam dunk people where, you know, if you ask them, they're gonna give you five stars. So think about who that is, and then what I like to do. What works well for most of my marketing students and clients, 'cause we are mostly introverts, is to send an email.

So let's say you saw them on Tuesday. You could send a follow up email on Wednesday that says, Hey, I meant to ask you this in person, but I was wondering if you would be willing to write a review for the practice. Explain to them how it helps because people are very interested in helping. So reviews really help new people find me and trust acupuncture so that I can help them.

And then you have to include your direct link to your Google reviews. Um, oh, sorry. I got so distracted. I think I want, I took us down the wrong road. We're, I'm telling you about Google reviews as opposed to patient reactivation. I think this means that I say the same thing too much to my students. So I'm like, I'm on autopilot.

Let me tell you the Google Review method, basically you give them the Google Review link so that all they have to do is click it and then they can click the number of stars and fill it out. But if you tell people like, oh, great, I'm glad you're willing to give me a review, like, go do that. They won't know how, or they'll forget they'll get lost, right?

They'll watch cat videos for 20 minutes instead. Okay, so that's Google reviews, and then at the end of your email you're like, thank you. You know, I give people an out where I like to say, at the end of that review request email. If you're not comfortable making public statements online, I really understand and, and no worries or no pressure.

So it's, it's like a very gentle way of allowing people to tell you like, Hey, I don't, I don't wanna make a statement with my name attached to it, and then they're off the hook. So for reactivation, it's very similar process, but instead of emailing them asking for a review, you are basically looking back over the past eight weeks and seeing who's dropped off the face of the earth.

They went on vacation and they never rebooked, or you, you really don't know why they didn't rebook, and I recommend reaching out to them in whatever method they would usually communicate with you. So go with their preference if they call. Then you wanna call them if they, if you allow texting at your practice and that's how they prefer to communicate with you, then I would text them.

You can really just check in on them if you want and just say, I was wondering how you're doing. I think it's really nice if you can come up with a little resource for them to show that you were thinking about them. So if someone was coming in for knee pain and they dropped off the face of the earth and they were a runner, you could find an article about, I don't know, like supplements you could eat to improve cartilage in the joints or learning something about like the joint fluid or something for distance runners.

And you could say, Hey, I saw this article and it made me think of you and I haven't seen you in a little bit. I really just wanted to check in. But regardless, I hope the article is useful. So it's, it's a bit more work. I love. It's more work, but it's very individual and it kind of makes people feel seen more than just reaching out and being like, Hey, how are you?

Please come back.

Molly: Oh, but I, I've built my whole business on things like that that don't scale on paper, right? Those relationships are the things that are the best investment in your business to show that extra, that extra mile. So I love that. That's a great idea. You also talked about your email newsletter.

I think those could be great for reactivation, even if, even if someone doesn't open the email. 'cause like I know open rates are like a really big, you know, and I'm not saying you shouldn't work to have good open rates. If you have terrible open rates, your subject lines are probably crappy. I. Even if people don't open the email, I have found myself being reminded like, oh yeah, I've been meaning to book an appointment even if I never open the email.

Michelle: Yeah, I think it's fascinating 'cause I don't think that the content of the email matters nearly as much as people think. They get very worked up about what I should say and I. Is this really worth sharing? Or how long does it have to be? Because you could send an email about knee pain, but all it really does is remind that person on their fertility journey that like they meant to get started, or, oops, I missed a, I missed a week and I really meant to book that appointment again.

Molly: Yeah. Or I, I love to thinking about like, like if you have any type of extra, like additional services. So it's like, so if you do cupping or like, you know, you do. Herbs or you do herbs. Sounds like you, do you know what I mean? Who we would say? Yeah. Kind of talking about those different things sometimes can get people interested to rebook, to be like, oh yeah, I haven't tried that.

Or like, we didn't, like I didn't, you know, think about it from that angle. What, when it comes to email, like I said, what's kind of the biggest you, you talk about email a lot, I know in your marketing, what's the kind of pushback that you typically get from your students about email marketing and how do you address that?

Michelle: People are definitely worried that every time they send an email, they are annoying their audience. Mm-hmm. And there's a couple ways to think about this, but first of all, remember that the person signed up to be on your list because they want to hear from you. So it makes me crazy personally when I sign up for someone's email list and I don't get a welcome email and then I don't get any newsletter, even though it says like, I send a monthly newsletter and then I'll realize four months later I've received nothing.

But the reason I signed up is because I thought this person or their specialty or their business was interesting and I thought they were gonna send me a cute little email about like, here's why I founded this business, or here's why I chose this specialty. Something, anything, right? People really are curious and that's, they wanna learn from you as well.

Maybe they have really bad seasonal allergies and they're hoping if they get on your monthly newsletter that when that comes around, you'll have some ideas that don't involve pharmaceuticals. Nasal spray. Yeah. I think if you frame it that your audience is anticipating your email, it feels a lot better.

Right? Like they're hoping to learn something from you instead of they're waiting to be irritated when they see your email. I don't think that happens, but that's what everyone imagines.

Molly: Oh, the only time that's happened for me when I've been like, Ugh, is when it's. A syndicated, like, so for example, one of the chiropractors I used to go to was more like wellness vitalistic, pregnancy, pediatrics, but whoever she was buying her syndicated email marketing content from was like more like personal injury whiplash.

And so the emails were all, and I was

Michelle: interesting. I

Molly: was so confused. I was like. This is so incongruent with, and I'm, I'm a fan. I mean, hello. My whole holistic marketing hub is like a bunch of templates, and I'm sure you've got email templates or something. Yeah. Like people, I'm not saying you can't use templates.

I'm just saying just make sure you make it actually work for what it is that you do in your business.

Michelle: What is an email template that was crafted by someone else and gets sent out by like hundreds of acupuncturists? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, oh, this. This acupuncturist didn't write this, they just kind of stuck their photo in at the top and their address at the bottom uhhuh.

But that, that used to be very popular and it was fine, like it educated people, but it's very impersonal, I guess is, is how I would describe it. At this point.

Molly: I like to always start off with like one sentence of like something that's going on, like that's very current. So I just did like a flash sale on the hub and I literally just, right, right before the email was supposed to go out, one of the sales emails.

I literally just added in a line at the top that said, my family and I are currently at Disney World, but I wanted to get this email to you 'cause we were, and it just feels, it's just that one little. Touch of like, oh, she's actually sending me this email, not a bot.

Michelle: Yeah, and even I do have a lot of email templates.

I always tell people like edit them. Edit them for your voice, edit them for your ideal patient. Some of those emails I actually send to my patients, and so they are definitely written in my voice, which is pretty casual. So I think there are some sentences that I would say that other people would be like, I would never say that.

That is not how I would say that. So that's like great. Okay. Like either delete it or, or alter it in some way. Even in those templates, I try to make them like warm and approachable just so that it's not apparent that they're an old school template.

Molly: Yeah,

Michelle: yeah. Like we used to get where it was, sounded like a textbook.

Molly: We, uh, we do email marketing for our Instagram management clients. We don't offer it as a one-off service, but it's obviously, it's easy for us to craft emails when we're doing a whole month of Instagram content for them, it's the same stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I had to tell my email girl, though, with one of our clients, I was like, Hey, I don't think you're watching her videos because these sounds sound, she's like a Brooklyn gruff.

New Yorker and like these emails sound like I wrote it, you know, like, oh hi, you know, we do not have the same personality. So she plugged it into chat, GBT, like gruff New Yorker, and it was like, yo, listen up. I was like, not quite, not that either. Anyway, I just thought that was a funny story. Story. Okay. So what are some of the biggest myths or fears that usually prevent holistic business owners from making like, like committing to marketing?

Michelle: I would say the biggest one is they're really afraid of coming across as pushy or sleazy. The way that I like to teach marketing or the angle that I teach it from is that marketing is just letting the people who need you know that you exist. And it, the flip side of that, which is no fun at all, is that you can't help people if they don't know your business exist.

Molly: You know, I, I say something very similar. I say like, you are literally doing someone a disservice. If you don't market your business, like you're being the opposite of whatever it is you think you're doing. Like, because I first discovered acupuncture, going back to the whole relationship thing, a former coworker and I had invited us to dinner with a group of his friends.

One of the girls who came to the dinner was an acupuncturist. Didn't think she was very lovely, loved her, but didn't think anything else about it. After the dinner, until I got pregnant about six months later and had terrible morning sickness and I was desperate and I was like Googling and it was like acupuncture.

And I was like, wait, I met an acupuncturist six months ago. I, so I like found her online, called her, she was like an hour away. And I drove, you know, like you said, that whole everything you've said, just like validated, like, and that's what finally. Got me. But I'm like, thank goodness I knew that that 'cause it helped, it helps my morning sickness.

So I'm like, good. Thank goodness I knew that existed. Because you're literally doing people disservice if you don't tell them.

Michelle: And if you think about the, the older man who wanted to go to Disney World with his family. If I hadn't, you know, made my efforts, 'cause I didn't live in that town around Akut, I was commuting.

I made a huge effort to be like known and make connections. If I hadn't done that, who knows, maybe he would've found a different acupuncturist, but maybe he would not have known about acupuncture at all. Wow. And the, you know, the very sad part is I don't remember what his Disneyland experience was. I don't, I remember treating him and it was delightful, and we hung out for these eight weeks.

And then I'm like, did I never see him after Disney? Like it went that well,

Molly: you should. You should. Okay. I need you to reach out to him and then I need you to, oh, those

Michelle: files are like 13 years old. Probably. They're in my attic. Like I, I can actually get rid of those now.

Molly: So you said, so one of the biggest, like you said, fears was coming across pushy or sleazy.

Michelle: I feel like it's actually very hard to create marketing that is super salesy and pushy if you're coming at it from the angle that you just are trying to reach the people who need you, right? You're just, you're giving them information and. Knowledge is power, right? So let's say that someone is trying to decide should I, you know, go for it and get knee surgery, or should I postpone and try some conservative things first?

And they read your post about acupuncture for knee pain. So now they are more empowered to make the healthcare decision that's the best for them because they have more information. And even if they choose to get knee surgery and they never try acupuncture, at least they knew. It was part of their decision making process.

'cause it's, even though, you know, as an acupuncturist, I think everyone should get acupuncture always. It's not really up to me to make those decisions for them. The absolute best that I can do is teach as many people as possible about what it's capable of so that they can decide and make a well-rounded choice for their life in this moment.

And it also doesn't mean that that person will never come back to acupuncture. Or that they won't refer someone else to acupuncture, but it's sort of like put, put the information out there. And then I always think of Elsa, let it go with the outcome. It like let the person make their own decision. But if you just keep putting it out there, you are gonna catch people who are in that right place in their life where the information is life changing and they say yes.

Molly: You just gotta keep saying it until, I mean, I've had, I've had students tell me, oh gosh, I just got a new patient. She said she's been following me on Instagram for a year. Yep. Like just something finally clicked. Or they either got, you know, the need was so there that, I mean, I hate needle. I've actually afraid of needles.

So it was like the fact that I, even now like my mom is like, are you the same per, I'm like, well. You know, desperate times. You know, when you're, when you're looking for a solution to a problem and you finally find it, you'll kind of try anything, you know,

Michelle: different the needles from what people are expecting.

Molly: Oh yeah. It's very different. I mean, I do, it's funny 'cause I hadn't been to acupuncture in a while. I. Then when I started going back about a year ago, the very first session, I was definitely sweating. I was like, Hey, just so you know, I'm a little sweaty, like a little, you know, um, she's like, yeah, totally fine.

Um, I was like, if you could just go a little slower, you know, and then finally like, you know, not finally, but by the second time, like I didn't have that reaction anymore. It had just been a long time. I'm sure you get patients like that too.

Michelle: Oh yeah. I had a new patient recently who was like, I am gonna be nervous.

The whole time. He's like, could you not put needles in my hands? 'cause I need to like fidget a little. I have to have the movement to get out that nervous energy. And I said, yeah, of course. You know, like, are you, is this okay? Like, do you, is it okay if I leave? Do you want me to take the needles out? And he had ac had acupuncture before.

He was like, no, no, no. I know it's, it's gonna work. And it helps so much. It's worth it. And I'm, I'm just gonna lay here and ride it out. For 30 minutes and then he, he always comes back. So it's, it's sort of like, you know, people are willing to do whatever it takes to feel better. Yeah.

Molly: Well, y'all are a lovely group of humans because going back to my acupuncturist in San Diego when I was, I.

Six. She did some induction and like pain points like right towards the very end. My husband actually deployed when I was 38 week preg, 38 weeks pregnant for six months. Yeah. It was awful timing. It's a whole long story how we thought we were so smart and timing it right, and then his employment got shifted.

It was the whole like we planned God laughs thing. Yes. And I asked her that day, I was like, Hey, would you mind just like staying in the room with me today? She's like. Absolutely. I'm getting like teary talking about it. 'cause I was just like, I just don't wanna be alone. Like, you know, I was like, can you just, can you just stay in the room with me?

And she was like, absolutely. So, like I said, y'all are just a, y'all are a lovely bunch of humans and so I really appreciate what it is that you do for the world. Made me get emotional.

Michelle: Oh my gosh. Don't cry. I'll cry. Yeah.

Molly: Yeah. So, okay, Michelle, how can people work with you? I've checked out your sales page for acupuncture marketing school before and it just looks fantastic.

So tell us a little bit about that and how people can work with you.

Michelle: Sure. Yeah. So my website is michelle grassic.com. Raic is spelled GRAS as in Sam, EK. I'm sure it'll be in your show notes. It's probably much easier for people. Michelle grassic.com. Um, Instagram is at Michelle. If you visit michelle grassic.com, you'll find acupuncture marketing school, and that is, like I mentioned earlier, it's very linear, step by step with videos and worksheets.

Or you can join the live version where I'm teaching just like this. But the idea is that I'm walking you through all of the sticky parts that we have a hard time with on our own, which is like target market, an ideal patient, and what is your marketing message? And let's create your brand. So we do the foundations.

Then once we have that feeling really strong for your practice, then we go into the visibility strategies, which is what most people think of when they think of marketing. So social media, email marketing, search engine optimization, that sort of thing. So it's, it's dense. It's a, it's a lot of info, but it's really good because I, I wanted.

I built this course I think eight years ago. It's been updated at least three times, but I wanted it to be comprehensive, right? So you go through this class and you come out the other side feeling like you know what you're doing. You have confidence in your understanding of marketing and your skills, and you can, and you have a plan, right?

You can just kind of carry it forward into the future.

Molly: Yeah,

Michelle: I love that.

Molly: Yeah, like I said, it looked, it looked really great when I was looking at your, your sales page, so thank you so much for spending this time with us today as you gave some great golden nuggets that I know people can implement right away.

Michelle: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. This was fun.

Molly: Thank you for listening to Holistic Marketing Simplified, and hey, you know how every podcaster at the very end of their episode asks you to rate and review their podcast? Well, that's because it's super important. These podcasts take a lot of time and heart and effort to produce, to bring you free information.

So in order for me to be able to continue doing that, we need more people to find out about the show. So if you could please just take like two minutes out of your very busy day to leave me a rating and share this on your Instagram Stories and tag at Molly a Cahill, that's C-A-H-I-L-L. I would greatly, greatly appreciate your support.

I know your time is valuable and I can't wait to see you in the next episode.