The Meta Ad Strategy That’s Producing 6X–12X Return for Chiropractic Clinics [Episode 176]

Molly: Okay, if you've been here a while, you know that I have this massive block around ads. So when Dr. Travis reached out to me a couple months ago for me to be on his podcast, my-- I'm not gonna lie. He knows this, so he, he knows. I've told him this. My hackles went up, right? 'Cause I like, I was like, "Oh, I saw he was an ads guy," and I was kind of like, "I don't know."

Like, you just hear so many horror stories about ads and stuff. And so I, again, he knows this, I vetted him with some of my trusted chiropractic friends, and every single person was like, "Oh, he's legit. He's awesome." So I'm so glad that I didn't let my stereotype of the ads bros not let this conversation happen.

So I was on his podcast. Um, the episode has already aired. You can look at that. It's called The Arena by Travis Stewart Making Moves, uh, M-U-V-S. I think it's only available on YouTube and Spotify, so we can hyperlink that episode in the show notes, um, where he's asking me all about like organic Instagram.

It's a long episode. It's like a freaking free masterclass. Seriously, I went back and listened to it, or I finished l- listening to it this morning. Um, I gave away a ton of free advice, so I'm happy to, like I said, link that in the show notes. But on this ep- after we ta- we ended up being on Zoom, he and I, I think for like two hours.

I told my husband afterwards, I was like, "I have a new best friend." I just genuinely think he's such a good guy. He's so smart. I learned so much talking to him that I was like, "I cannot wait to have you on my show because selfishly, I just wanna ask you a bunch of questions." And again, I mean, I walked away from this conversation just like mind blown.

I learned so much. I was actually just quoting something I learned from him to my business coach today, and she's like, "Oh, that's so smart." So yeah, so I am really, really pumped to bring you this episode. I think you're going to love it. It's all about, uh, running ads for your, your, your practice. Now, I will say, if you're one of my non-chiros who listens, his company only runs ads for chiropractors, but I think that you will still get a lot of value out of this.

So here we go.

Hey, welcome to Holistic Marketing Simplified. This podcast boils down to the fact that we wholeheartedly believe that more humans need to know about holistic health solutions, and you didn't go to school to learn how to be a full-time content creator and show up on Instagram and do all of this marketing stuff all day, every day.

So let's come hang out while we chat all things easing your marketing, and my goal is that you shift your mindset around your marketing from a, quote, "should" to a, "I get to". More dream patients and clients? Yes, please.

Dr. Tara Carlson: Hi, I'm Dr. Tara Carlson, and I'm from Wayzata, Minnesota, and I listen to the Holistic Marketing Simplified podcast

Molly: All right, Dr.

Travis, we made it. We had some tech difficulties, and we've, we've been in business and used Zoom how many times?

Travis: Exactly. Yes, I've used this setup a thousand plus times, and I've never had the problem that I just encountered, but I figured it out. That is the life of an entrepreneur, I will say. Right.

Molly: We were just having this sidebar conversation about how you're just solving the next right problem.

Travis: It's the next problem. Yep. It is. That's exactly what this is. It's all about problem solving. So if you wanna be a good entrepreneur, better buckle up.

Molly: Yeah. Right. This shit ain't for the birds. But you know what- That's right ... I was, I was telling my business coach, I was like, "What am I gonna do? Go work for someone else?

No." So,

Travis: Amen to that.

Molly: So Travis, tell us... Okay, my audience knows me well. Though if you're new to me, you don't know this about me. Mm-hmm. But if, my people who've been with me for a while know that I'm like the organic queen, I'm the relationship queen. I'm great at, you know, making people feel something. I've always had this personal block around paid ads because I get...

Um, I have a home video of me when I was two years old of my older brother teaching me to hop on one foot, and I can't do it. And I just like throw myself on the floor in a ball and pitch a fit. That is what I do when I log into Ads Manager. I'm like, "Ah, I don't

Travis: wanna do it." Yeah.

Molly: So I'm so grateful to have been connected to you because over the years, people ask me, I mean, I get asked all the time, "Who do you recommend for paid?"

I'm like, "I don't know." I've never had a solid recommendation. So I'm not gonna lie, when you first reached out, I was like, "All right. Is this just some other ads bro?" You know, like... And so I reached out to some of my friends, and they're like, "Oh, no. Travis is legit. He's amazing." Like, everybody's like, "No, he's great."

Travis: We have some overlap.

Molly: Yeah. "He's great. He's legit." And then when I came on your show, I told my husband, I was like, "I have a new best friend. I love this guy." So-

Travis: I told my wife the same thing.

Molly: Yeah. Like-

Travis: I had to give some context and s- I was like, "No, just hear me out."

Molly: Oh, no. I, this, I have a new best friend.

This guy is legit. I finally feel confident recommending an ads- Person. But you're not just an ads person se- person, you're, you're not an agency. So let's just kind of take it back to the beginning. You are still a practicing chiropractor, yeah? Or no?

Travis: That's correct.

Molly: Okay. Okay.

Travis: Yeah, I'm a chiropractor first.

Yeah, I think that's- Yeah ... important to get out there, is I think that's what, uh, differentiates me from the ad bros right off the bat that are coming out of the woodworks, man. We got ad bros everywhere.

Molly: Sorry for that. Sorry for the, uh, the stereotype.

Travis: That's okay. No, I mean, there, there's definitely a stereotype.

That's why it's a stereotype. Um, but no, I'm a chiropractor first, and honestly, this is like, uh, one of those how did I get here moments, you know? 'Cause I, I, um, I never expected to be the ads guy, definitely didn't expect to be the marketing guy. Um, I just wanted to be a chiropractor, and I wanted to be a chiropractor that could adjust really well and that had a really successful practice 'cause I wanted to provide for my family and make a big impact in my community.

You know, fortunately, we ran into a pretty significant challenge right when we opened our practice because we opened in Boulder, Colorado, uh, September 15th of 2020, which was- Yeah ... right in the middle or beginning front end of COVID. Uh, but it was right when they had come down hard on Colorado.

Molly: Okay.

Travis: So extreme regulations and lockdown.

They actually shut down chiropractic for a while, uh, because they said it was non-essential healthcare, and so the, uh, CCA here had to fight to get reback, back reopened, and, uh, they had this, like, one in, one out thing. But anyway, if you are in a state, um, that had lockdowns and regulations similar to us, then you know that there was no external marketing opportunities.

Like, there was no ability to network. Um, you know, people were m- wearing multiple masks, carrying a stick around to beat you off if you got within six feet. Uh, there was no other way for us to actually build our practice. Um, those that know me, uh, my audience knows that I'm a pretty determined individual.

And so once we planted our flag here and we put all of our funds into starting this practice, there was no turning back. It was sink or swim. And we didn't just wanna survive. We wanted to grow, and we wanted to be successful, and it was my wife and I that started the practice. So our only option, again, problem-solving.

Right off the bat, we had to solve a huge problem. How do we get new business in a market where we can't go out and get new business? Because the biggest problem that you have as a small business is obscurity, which means that nobody knows you exist. And so nobody in this town, we didn't know a single person except for the chiropractor that let us lease space from him.

Nobody in this town knew we existed, so how in the world are we gonna grow a chiropractic practice, uh, when no one within, you know, 1,000 miles knows who we are? So we knew that digital was our only option. Um, and fortunately, we interviewed a few companies, and we hopped in with one company who's now not in business anymore for obvious reasons.

Uh, but we we saw some decent success, you know, right up front. Like, we were able to generate some new patients. It was expensive, and they weren't our ideal clients, but it did generate clients So that gave us hope. You know, we had a little bit of traction, and we were like, "Okay, so this internet thing can work."

You know, we put a little money in, they make these weird, uh, ads of us doing a cross Pisie on somebody's back with a cheesy smile and put $27 exam special on the photo and throw it out there with some ad spend with a cheesy landing page, and people bought it, you know? And the next thing we know, we had some new patients, and we were able to convert a few of those patients and generate just enough revenue to survive to get to the next month.

You know, w- with that, we had terrible customer service. Like, the service that we had from the agency looking back was not good. It was unpredictable. It was inconsistent. Uh, the results were okay for like month one, and then they plummeted pretty quickly Our representative just wasn't communicating with us the way that we thought they should.

So long story short, we went through four different agencies and two different consultants in the span of about 18 months. So we started with four-- we went through four agencies in one year, and then we deci- decided to hire some freelancers to work on our stuff because we wanted more like one-to-one because we thought that was the problem.

So we went through two consultants as well. And finally, we got to the last one, and my offi- my then office manager and I looked at each other, and we were like, "We feel like we could do a better job than these people are doing." And so we decided to go outside the industry and scour the internet for resources.

And I have all the books that led to my marketing acumen back here on this shelf. Uh, but I just started reading every waking hour. I was delving into and trying to understand marketing fundamentals and more specifically paid advertising, uh, because we had heard from a lot of people smarter than us with bigger businesses than us that direct response marketing was the way to go.

And so, um, that was, that was what I chose, and that's what I prioritized. And so my office manager and I built out our own in-house ad system, and we went from a struggling 12K a month practice to a 70K a month practice that was thriving and very profitable within six months, which at that time was amazing because it had taken us, you know, a year or so to get to 12 to 15K just because of how hard this market was whenever there was no other networking or external opportunities.

And long story short, I have a podcast as well. I was talking about our in-house marketing strategy on, um, my podcast, and I had a bunch of people reach out and started to inquire like, "How are you guys doing that? I've never heard of anybody doing it on their own successfully." And so I went to my office manager and was like, "Hey, man, I've got all these people reaching out.

I don't know what to do about it. Do you wanna try to take some people on and see if we can help other practices install this system?" And he was like, "Let's start with five. We'll do a beta test round and see how it goes." That was about three years ago, uh, just over three years ago, and the beta test went great.

All the other practices around the globe crushed it better than, better than we had in Boulder. And so we knew we had something special, and so he actually transitioned out of the practice. We co-founded the Chiro Ads Academy, and now we've served 420 chiropractors, I believe, with our in-house Facebook and Instagram ad strategy.

Molly: That's incredible. So this is what I wanna just focus on really quickly, is that you are training someone in the office. So kind of give me a little bit, like what does that look like? How often is it the actual provider versus the office manager or a CA, or are they hiring VAs outside?

Travis: It's pretty balanced.

It really depends on the archetype and the personality of the founder. We found that some founders, um, you know, Type A founders, they wanna have ownership over this. Sure. And also they see it as a high leverage skill set, which I would- Yeah ... I would say that it is. Uh, understanding how to generate new business for any business is a high leverage skill set, and it also just increases your business acumen overall because it's very data-driven, and it's very principle-based, and principles don't change.

You know, even as like technology and different, different platforms and all of that stuff, all of the advancements that we've had and the ever-changing lan- landscape, like the actual true fundamentals of marketing and advertising don't change. So if you can understand those things, then you kind of become bulletproof because it doesn't really matter, you know, if we have any economic uncertainty or we have another lockdown or if Facebook gets shut down and another platform pops up.

It doesn't really matter. And so I think people like that. They like having that security as a business owner that, you know, no matter what happens, they'll be able to figure it out. Um, but we also have what I would say- Is that a lot of our product development has come not in the form of like adding things, uh, in order to make our product better, but it's come in the form of omission.

So we've started to just like delete things and simplify it and make it as easy as possible. When we first started out, we had a little bit of imposter syndrome, so it was like, how much value can we provide? It was like-

Molly: I'm laughing because I did the same thing. I had like 47 modules- Yeah, most people do

in my course. Exactly. Like I'm like- Yes ... I'm gonna teach you everything I know. Look how smart I am.

Travis: That's right. That's right. And so then that becomes overwhelming, and it's so robust that people can't get through it, and then they're not extracting the tactical implements the way that they should. And so because of that, people get confused, and then, you know, the confusion creates an energetic inefficiency, and so they actually just stop doing it altogether, and then it doesn't work, and that's a lose-lose.

Um, so we figured out to make it as simple as possible and to hold people's hands. Like we also realize that we're in the accountability business. We are making sure that they're showing up, that they're understanding exactly what they need to do, that they have a very, uh, as few as possible action steps that they need to take care of themselves, and then they take care of those action steps, and they meet us at the next call.

And it's, it's very incremental, uh, the learning process, but the amount of growth that they can have is exponential. Um, because once we get their ads launched, which is typically 14 to 21 days, uh, now in that first 14 day period, there are 14 different videos, uh, not to like overwhelm anybody 'cause we make it super simple, but there are 14 different videos that they need to shoot.

Um, and that's their first ad campaign, as well as all of their client journey videos. So the videos that go through the VSL on the landing page, the thank you page, the post-booking videos, um, some testimonial videos, all of those things. And then once we have all of those videos, uh, and then we have all of the funnel system created, we get their ads launched in 14 to 21 days or so, then we're teaching them how to understand the Facebook manager landscape, which is really easy to do now.

Facebook has made the ads manager extremely simple for small business owners like you and I, and it's a really smart business move because they make 99% of their revenue through their ads platform. And so they're making-- I think they made like f- over $44 billion last year from ad revenue, and, you know, they spent over $10 billion on R&D.

Billion, B, billion dollars. Over $10

billion

to make the ads manager as easy to use as possible, and they also updated their algorithm, their like AI brain, to this, um... It's called Andromeda, which everybody was like doom posting about and, you know, saying that this is gonna kill your performance. Not true. It killed the agency's performance because it took away a lot of those like higher level, harder to, harder to do targeting standards, and it reduced the amount of buttons that you have to click.

But what it did is it actually, uh, restructured a lot of the targeting into creative targeting. So now it has to be in your messaging, it has to be in the f- the words that you're saying, the people that you're calling out, the message that you're providing, and the AI is actually evaluating that, and it's pumping it out to those individuals that have showed interest in those things throughout their time on the platform So you're not having to do all those things because they don't want it to be a centralized marketing effort.

They don't want ad bros to be the only ones that know how to run ads. They want every mom pop, every small business, every person that has something to promote to be able to give them money and get a result. And so we figured out how to give them money and get them way more-- get way more money in return to get, you know, average docs are getting like 6X, uh, ROAS on the lower end.

I always like to give low expectations so that we can underpromise and overdeliver, which is what most agencies don't do. Ad bros don't do. Digital ad agencies, they typically overpromise and underdeliver. Yeah. And so we like to go the other way around, you know? It's like expect a 6X,

Molly: but- Surprising delight

Travis: exactly, but the, the probability of you getting a 10 to 12X is pretty high once we get the system dialed.

Molly: Incredible, Travis. Like incredible. I have 57 things I wanna ask you, and so I'm gonna like- Okay ... try to make sure I get it like- All

Travis: right, let's go

Molly: I'm like, I'm like, "All right, Molly, focus in." So first, I just wanted to thank you because you inspired me.

I'm a huge outsourcer, right? Like I'm like-

Mm-hmm ...

I am-- You talked about the messaging, like I am a creative. I'm usually really great at coming up with a hook and like a message that's gonna help. And like you said, that's, that's that marketing foundation that spans everything, right? Like that's the- Mm-hmm

the key is learning how to talk about it. But you really inspired me to be like, "Okay, I'm gonna look at this again, and again, this is not something that I'm gonna outsource. This is something I wanna learn for myself." And so I've, I've started-- I have a friend actually who's doing like a VIP day with me to like kind of teach me, like I-- teach me the ropes almost kind of like what y'all do, um- Great

in a different way just because I'm finally like, "All right, get over yourself." Like this is something you have to like this is a skill set that you need to learn. And so for, like I said, I just wanted to like thank you first on that. And then two, what do you feel like now that you have all of these I guess Meta has all these, made all these changes.

What do you feel like are some of the, like, the most common, like, pushbacks you get from people? I... Well, I will start with one that I get. When I ran, I ran two group cohorts where I essentially was like, "Okay, let me install your own in-house content creator into your practice." And some of the pushback I got was like, "Well, I have a lot of turnover with my CAs, and if I train them to have this skill, then they leave."

Do you run into that often? Or like you said, it depends on, like, the actual founder or practitioner themself is the one-

Travis: It does. I would say the three biggest, like, objections that we have to overcome with people is, yeah, time, energy, I guess four, time, energy, staff, and then money.

Yeah.

You know, it always comes back to kind of a money conversation.

But, um, realistically, it's, it's not typically a money conversation because it's a math equation now. You can, you know, solve any problem with arithmetic. And if we can say, "Look, this is how much it's gonna cost you up front. These are our average return on ad spends. You're gonna make an average 6X return.

You're not gonna have to pay an agency fee, which means this is gonna be highly profitable for you and your practice after the first 14 to 21 days." So typically, we're able to overcome that objection pretty quickly. We have hundreds of testimonials now that prove that. So then it comes down to the other three, which is the time, the energy, and the staff We've made it as simple as possible.

It's an hour a week to learn this stuff, understand it, and to actually implement on it. So if you can't take 60 minutes to invest in generating, you know, plentiful new patients into your practice, then we need to have another conversation which is simply mindset. Kind of like be, be an

Molly: associate.

Travis: Yeah.

Right. That's, that's not thinking like a business owner- Yeah ... or a CEO. But yeah, we have, we have the-- our, our training program is it's lifetime access. And again, we've simpli- simplified it in a way where if you did have some type of staff or employee turnover, then they can go into our, into our program and learn these skills pretty quickly, as well as we have like a continuity or continued support that's, you know, a very small fee per month if you wanna do that after your program.

And that keeps you in contact with my co-founder and one of our support coaches so that we can, again, try to help hold your hand on reinstalling this using another team member. But that's also, I would say, why a lot of the founders that we have, like they like to go through it first. And if they're not going through it alone, they're going through it with their office manager, or they're going through it with a CA with the intention of understanding it well enough to where they can delegate it in the future.

Because there's a difference between delegation and abdication. And Michael Gerber, he wrote "The E-Myth." He's a big entrepreneurial educator. Um, but he talks about the two, and the two is like abdication is essentially not understanding the skill and not having the knowledge base to, to know what you're delegating.

Uh, so you don't know what KPIs to track. You don't know how to hold people accountable. You don't know what good execution looks like. But whenever you do go through this on your own and you have the fundamental skillsets or at least the high-level understanding, then when you delegate it, you can create an accountability structure that sets that person up for success.

And so it is something that can be kind of perpetually learned and taught inside of your practice long term. Uh, that's what we do inside of our practice.

Molly: So it was really nice talking with you today, Travis. I'm gonna close the, uh

Travis: That's all you needed? No, I'm

Molly: like, you just called me out. No, I just 'Cause I know for years I was so overwhelmed with all of the things that come with running a business, and, and heck, I'm just running online, right?

Like, I don't have brick-and-mortar overhead. That I... You're so right. Like, I'm, like, literally sweating right now 'cause I'm like, "Oh my God, I abdicated. I didn't delegate." Mm-hmm. I told myself I was being a smart business owner, and, "Stay in your zone of genius, Molly." And I was just like, "Here you go. I don't wanna deal with this."

Yeah.

And I didn't know enough to ask the right questions, right? And so I did hire an agency for a little while, and my results weren't terrible. I wasn't paying... I mean, I should've known what the price of the agency was. You know what I mean? Like, I got what I paid for. Mm-hmm. I really did. But I'd see little things, and I'd be like, "Well, wait a minute.

How did nobody see this? Like, that when this ad pops up in story form, that this part doesn't make sense." Like-

Travis: Exactly ...

Molly: or when this ad pops up in this place, the button's not in the right... Like, how did nobody see this? Yeah. But I

Travis: didn't- The text is covered up. Yeah. It's in, it's in- Yeah. I didn't know to

Molly: ask those questions though, right?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because I didn't understand. I didn't, I didn't know enough about it. Oh my God. That's my, my

Travis: blood pressure. I mean, that, I would say that, that... Yeah. I mean, that, that's a, that's a common problem in business altogether. Mm-hmm. And I think that's something that you have to learn through mistakes.

But one thing that I always say is that we paid the ignorance tax. Like, to get to where we are now, it has taken us six-plus years of the pursuit of mastery in order to be able to simplify this and teach it at, you know, a really digestible and comprehensive way, um, where people can actually implement it and see results right away When we first started, it wasn't like that.

Like our system was really rudimentary and it was hard to do. And luckily it was profitable and successful, but it was challenging, you know? And, and now over time what we've found is that, you know, you, you bring on people internally and you hire for character and you train for skill, and this is a skill.

So you can hire A players you know that you know are bought into the vision, that are committed to you and your team and your practice, and it's your job as the CEO, which is your chief visionary officer, to be constantly reminding your team members of the vision. So as long as you can keep them bought in and they're committed and they're loyal and they're trustworthy and they're competent, then you can train them on this skill.

And once they have this skill, they become a huge asset for you and your business which provides a better growth opportunity for them. This is one of those domains of business that every successful business that you've ever heard of has prioritized. And you know, I think if for some reason I find this delineation between chiropractic practices and every other entrepreneurial venture in the world where they look at the business as a business.

It's business first principles and then your philosophy kind of weaves its way into the business. But chiropractic is so philosophy based that we take a philosophy first approach and then, hey, if I just happen to sprinkle some business in along the way, then that's good too. You know? I just feel good about myself.

Well, you're also sweating through your sheets at night wondering how you're gonna pay payroll. You have high turnover with your team because you can't compensate them well enough.

Molly: Oh-ho. That might be the turnover problem, huh?

Travis: That's a big turnover problem. Yeah. There's, there's two, two, uh, forms of compensation and it's either monetary or affirmation and recognition.

And so if they're not getting enough affirmation and recognition from you as a leader and you're not being the example as a leader then you got to compensate them well. And if you can figure out how to do both then that's where you can, you know, build a team of A players.

Molly: Have you had people do this without team though?

Just like solo docs?

Travis: Oh yeah. Yeah. We, we have some of our most successful docs inside of the program that are solo docs that are getting huge return on ad spend because I'm telling you, we made it easy. Yeah. You know?

Molly: I'm like listen, you, you have-- What is it? Evangelized? You've evangelized me. I am bought in.

Like I'm like- Let's go. I am at-- Like wait, I can't wait till we talk again and I'm gonna be like, "Travis look at what these are." Because yeah, you're so right. Like you go to a website and say you're like shopping for a pair. Like this morning, um, you know how All-Allbirds did this like whole like we're an AI company now.

Have you heard this?

Travis: Uh, no, I did not Okay.

Molly: Do you know the Allbirds shoes?

Travis: Yeah, I do.

Molly: Okay. So their, like, business tanked, and then overnight they were like, "Just kidding, we're not a shoe company anymore. We're an AI company." Like, don't even ask me- Interesting ... how that happens. So this morning I was, like, wanting to buy some Allbirds, 'cause I love them, like, 'cause they, they're just, like, the wide toe box, whatever.

But it's like, now I guarantee you, I didn't finish checking out this morning. When I log on to Instagram later, all I'm gonna see are ads for Allbirds.

Travis: That's right. You're gonna get retargeted, yeah.

Molly: Right. And it's like, how silly, like you said, because I think not just 'cause I serve acupuncturists and massage and all that too, it's like, "Well, we're just here to help people, you know?"

That's kind of what they... Well, I just... And I, and I'm sure you hear this a lot. "I'm not good with technology." Yeah. I did a whole episode, Travis, on I'm not good at technology, and how that's just such a like... I'm like, "Listen, you know how to adjust someone's cervical spine and not paralyze them? Like, you can-" That's right

figure out how to post an ad."

Travis: You can click a few buttons, I promise.

Molly: That's what I say about Reels. I'm like, "If you can adjust someone's cervical spine, you can make a Reel, I promise you."

Travis: Yeah. And trust me, I... Look, I have to overcome that stuff all the time. That's a mindset conversation. What I like to call that in my world is a limiting belief.

And, you know, if you need to break through some limiting beliefs, I can help coach you on that, too. Um, but realistically, it's having an, an expanded frame of mind. You know, this is something where, like, you learn it's a small investment of time, energy, and money up front that allows you to make more money, reach more people, and change more lives.

If you don't wanna do all three of those things, you shouldn't be a business owner. And the way I like to see this and say this is like, marketing is the domain that allows you to serve at a higher level. You get to serve more people. So if you just wanna help people, and that's the limitation around actually learning marketing, it's actually r- really counterproductive.

Molly: Yeah,

Travis: and I- It's a conundrum.

Molly: Yeah, that's what I always tell people. I'm like, "Listen." Like, that's the first thing I teach in my program, too, is like return to your why. This is gonna sound so cheesy, and you're gonna roll your eyes, but, like, I always tell the sis- the story of my sister-in-law who my first niece she was not able to breastfeed, and my second niece she was.

And she learned how to breastfeed by watching Reels on Instagram If you can remember that story and think of it in your mind of like, "I'm not showing up today because Molly said I need to post or Travis said I need to post and this is just what you have to do in 2026." It's like, "No, I'm putting out this content because there's someone in my community who needs my help and doesn't know I exist."

Travis: Exactly.

Molly: Exactly. And if you can anchor to that, everything else becomes, to me, just so much more downstream. You're like, "Oh, okay." I

Travis: mean, look, we had 13 new patients in my practice yesterday. Yesterday.

Molly: Wow.

Travis: 13 new patients yesterday. And now I'm not saying that we have m- more new patients or the biggest practice, you know, in the United States, but 13 new patients yesterday, we used to kill for 13 new patients a month.

Molly: Yeah, it's hard.

Travis: And 13 people yesterday got exposed to the mes- the best message in healthcare, I believe.

Molly: Yeah.

Travis: You know? And-

Molly: No, I completely agree with you ...

Travis: and, you know, they all came in with a problem, and that problem was limiting their ability to live the life that they wanna live, you know? And so I, I just...

I think it's our duty and our responsibility to market and advertise chiropractic. B.J. Palmer would say the same. He was one of the biggest, uh, advocates for advertising. He was a, he was an advertising mogul. You know? He bought a radio station, for God's sakes, uh, so that he could get the message of chiropractic out there.

He had these huge floats. They would do massive parades. Um, he was best friends with a guy who owned a print shop. He made all of these epigrams and, like, he was an advertising genius. And everybody wants to kind of like Christianity. Everybody wants to cherry-pick the green books, you know, and they wanna cherry-pick the green books around certain philosophical standpoints.

Uh, but they don't care to listen to the developer of chiropractic on how he believed that the message of chiropractic should be shared, and it should be shared on every media platform that you can get your hands on. And you should be trying to reach as many people as possible.

Molly: Okay. This is a perfect segue into my next question for you because- Okay

you and I chatted about this when I was on your show, how I am not a chiropractor, right? So when I came onto the scene seven years ago, not that I'm saying I have this giant of an impact, but I'm just gonna say I ruffled a lot of feathers with the more principled docs 'cause I'm like, "Listen, you can't keep marketing to living your best life and restoring your vitality and subluxation."

Like, nobody knows what that means. It's not meeting people where they are. Mm-hmm. You've got to get more specific with symptoms and conditions. That's right. Do I understand that chiropractic is not a symptom-chasing modality? Absolutely I do. What i- what is it the average uptake of... It's like 10% of the population or something?

Travis: 12 or 12 to 13. 12. Yeah. Yeah. It's

Molly: like if we want that number to grow- You have to meet people where they are.

Travis: Exactly.

Molly: So do you wanna talk about that a little? 'Cause you c- you kinda... So you said VSL, so for people who don't know what that is, it's, uh- Video sales letter ... video sales letter. Uh, ROAS, return on ad spend.

So you talked about these funnels. Just kind of give us like the 20,000-foot overview of like what the skeleton looks like and how you're also marketing to certain pain points and symptoms, condition. You call them condition funnels, don't you? Or what do you say? Yeah,

Travis: condition-specific funnels. Yeah.

Molly: Yeah.

Okay.

Travis: Yeah. Yeah, so I, I mean, I learned this from one of my greatest unknowing mentors, Dan Kennedy, who's the godfather of direct response marketing. And, you know, he says that if you market to everyone, you market to no one. And he also says that you wanna sell them what they want and then give them what they need over time.

Molly: Yes.

Travis: In order to drive as much volume as possible and get as many people into your practice as possible, uh, you have to hyper-target. And we, we use something called the triad of trust. Uh, we kind of created it into a super easy way to understand it, but it's relevance, uniqueness, and omnipresence are the three pillars there.

And so relevance means that you have to become relevant to a problem that they have right now. And what that means is that you have to hyper-target their largest motivating factor. And we know, um, through extensive research and understanding of human psychology and behavior, as well as a lot of religious texts, that, um, one of the largest motivating factors in people's life is to get rid of, get, get away from pain, uh, not necessarily the desire for pleasure The largest motivating factor in someone's life is going to be a specific pain point that is limiting their daily activities or their quality of life.

And so what we do is we create condition-specific funnels that hyper-target the, uh, most common self-diagnosed conditions that patients will have. Because especially now in the age of information, people are doing a ton of research, and they're self-diagnosing themselves with different conditions that you see people for inside of your office.

And so like for s- for the sake of clarity, we can say sciatica. Most people that come into our practice with simple low back pain and maybe a little bit of like nerve involvement or referral pain down into the glute say they have sciatica. We know that that's not true. They don't have sciatica. Um, they have, uh, some type of subluxation in the low back with some type of inflammation around a nerve root that's causing a little bit of referral pain into one side.

But they call it sciatica, so we're going to use their language to our advantage. And so we are going to hyper-target them using some type of common provocation. So for instance, what we do is we use RND inside of our consultations, which means that down on the side of our form, if somebody comes in and they have low back pain or they have sciatica and they tell us that when we ask the question like, "What makes this worse?"

Like, and they tell us, "Well, whenever I bend forward to tie my shoes." Okay, perfect. So that's one person saying, when I bend forward and tie my shoes, that's when I feel the largest provocation of symptoms. And then the next person that has low back pain and sciatica, air quotes, comes in, and they tell us that it's, you know, it's really when I put my shoes on in the morning, and I'm like bent forward and like that's when I really feel it, everything tighten up and get super inflamed.

Um, perfect. That's number two So you can actually do R&D inside your consultations to understand the language that people are using to describe their self-diagnosed condition. And then what you do is you take that and you turn it into a hook. And so that's how we created our condition-specific funnels over time, was we, we just assimilated all of the most common ways of describing what they were experiencing through their self-diagnosed conditions, and we made condition-specific funnels.

So we made the ads that, uh, hook their attention with that exact verbal provocation that made them feel like, "Oh my gosh, they're talking directly to me." And then we have the body of the ad, which is hook problem aware, so we wanna identify the problem and label the problem, solution aware, which is where we outline our simple three-step solution to solve their problem.

We add in social proof, and then we give them a compelling or irresistible call to action. And then when they get to the landing page, we're going to have it outlined in a very similar way. And everything stays with continuity all the way through the funnel until they get inside of our office and they're sitting right across from, from us and we ask them, "What brought you in?"

"Well, your Facebook ad spoke ex-exactly to me. I felt like you were talking directly to me because my sciatica flares up when I bend forward and tie my shoes Boom. Got them Just

Molly: that. Yes. Yes. I always, this is first lesson in my pro- my program too. I'm like, "Just look at your intake forms. What, what was the chief complaint?"

Exactly. Not what you diagnosed them with. Or I know you can't- That's right ... diagnose, excuse me, but not what you figured out that they have. What did they, what did they write down?

Travis: Yeah.

Molly: And then what can't they do because of this? Like you said, I always like, what have they tried before? You know, have you tried X, Y, and Z for your X and it still hasn't gotten better?

Like, then that's when people get that like, oh my gosh, like-

Travis: Aha moment ...

Molly: this is what w- I was up at 2:00 AM, you know, Googling or asking chat about. Like how did they know?

Travis: Yep, that's

Molly: right. And I think too, I don't know the ads algorithm like you do, but Instagram's just organic algorithm. I, I, I get so frustrated because a lot of the, you know, Instagram gurus are like, um, will lead with headlines that are like, "Instagram's algorithm leaked," or, "Instagram's algorithm exposed."

I'm like, guys, it's not. Like, it's literally like I'm interested in this thing, or the interwebs know I'm Googling this thing, and here's my content that answers this thing, and it's literally that simple. Like it's not-

Travis: Exactly ...

Molly: it's not fancy.

Travis: No, it's not. It's really simple. Again, that's what I'm, that's what I'm saying is like- Right

it's, it's really easy to understand. It's easy to, it's easy to comprehend. It's easy to believe. It's easy to use. And once you see the results, it becomes undeniable, you know?

Molly: Yeah. And it, it learns so fast too, right? Your algorithms learn fast. Like, so we love Project Hail Mary. Have you read that book or read the-

Travis: No

Molly: movie yet? Oh my God, it's amazing if you like sci-fi stuff. So movie was great. Even my nine-year-old loved it. So then I'm like, you know, watching some reels with like Ryan Gosling in Project Hail Mary. It's like, okay, then I log in again. What's happening? My whole explore page is Project Hail Mary. Like your algorithm, all it does is it's mimicking back to you your behavior.

So that's why- Mm-hmm ... I think we have to be so specific in your hooks because that's what gets your content served up to your ideal person. It can't

Travis: just be like- That's the same with ads ...

Molly: three reasons you need chiropractic. Well-

Travis: Exactly. Nope. That's- That's an easy way to get scrolled past.

Molly: Yeah. And it used to work, right?

Like, man, darn did it used to work-

Travis: Yeah ...

Molly: in those days. Okay. Ear-

Travis: early on the platforms when they were pushing- Yeah ... stuff out to everybody. Yeah.

Molly: Oh, it was so... Oh, my job used to be so much easier. All right. So my next question is, 'cause I get this question a lot, is boosting Do you love this question or you hate this question?

Boosting posts- I, um- ... versus Ads Manager.

Travis: Yeah. So there's just so much more that you can control and toggle inside the Ads Manager. There's also way more data. Like, we, we look at different KPIs than what you would get behind a boosted post. Um, so what we look at-- I mean, th- again, this is just business acumen, right?

And, like, uh, a lot of people look at, a lot of people look at Instagram platform metrics as... Unfortunately, they're paying attention to the wrong metrics, and I know that you know this. They're paying attention to vanity metrics. And what we wanna see is, like, money out versus money in, and obviously, there's, like, 13 KPIs that are in between that, right?

It's cost per lead. It's cost per show, cost per opportunity, your click-through rate. Um, you have a lot of, you have a lot of leading indicators that can allow you to foreshadow. It can allow you to kinda see into the future so that you can start to kill ads and double down on other ads to increase your results at an accelerated rate.

And, uh, you know, I, I don't do a lot of boosted posts. We did whenever we first started, but that funnel was-- it was just different, and it felt, it just felt more comprehensive. Like, and when I say that, I mean, like, it just took more manual effort. That was before ManyChat and some of these other things, but it was typically, like, send a message or a follow or, uh, something like that.

And we, we're just big on direct response. Like, we wanna, we want you to click this form, put in your information, go to our booking page, book ap- book an appointment inside of our, uh, calendar. Then we have our follow-up team reach out, and they pre-qualify, pre-vet, pre-frame. They get you to pre-pay on the call, and that increases the show percentage to above 90%.

And then you come in, you know exactly what you're gonna be experiencing. You have extreme clarity. You've digested, you know, like, minutes to hours of our content. And, uh, y- we have more trust built with you than most people. And, you know, whenever you come into our practice, like, you know what you wanna be served up, which is a long-term corrective care plan inside of our office.

And so we've just found that, like, whenever we construct our funnel and we're able to pay attention solely to all of the metrics that we like to pay attention to inside of the Ads metric or inside of the Ads Manager, then our money goes farther, and we're able to make better decisions faster

Molly: Yeah, because...

So that's actually a good-- I almost have, like, a two-part question because, uh, so stick with me on this journey here. So it's like, okay, if someone is just getting started, they wanna vent- you know, work with you, but, like, for now, they're like, "What can I just do with my own skill set?" Like, and they ha-have online booking, let's just say.

You're-- I mean, they could, i-in theory, boost a post, run it to their online booking, but they're not gonna see... Like, they might see some good results, but it's not gonna be what they would see if they were, like, following the full system.

Travis: Exactly. Yeah, I mean, there's always going to be results to be had with each different process, but we've just found this to be the most optimized because it's the most automated and it's the most automatic.

You know, it's like build it once, and then just refresh your content, and that's really all it takes is, like, you know, you can shoot content once a month, and you can send those off to an, to an editing team, and you can have those edited, and then you relaunch the campaigns. But the, the rest of the full system is still in place.

And it's pretty automated now. We use AI. We use a process or a software called BlueBubbles, which means that we have a third-party text integration, software integration that actually turns our text messages blue, our follow-up text messages blue, so it feels like it's coming from an iPhone, which humanizes the follow-up, so it increases- Oh, cool

yeah, it increases the, uh, the response rate pretty significantly. And then we've trained now an AI booking bot to actually have a full conversation with people. And so they feel like they're talking to a person. They actually have no idea that they're not talking to a person. And then the ultimate goal of the AI booking bot, which is working around the clock 24/7 for a very nominal fee, 10 times less than you would have to pay a human to do that, it's getting them to book an appointment.

And then after that appointment book, now we go to manual follow-up, and you call them, and you just run, you just run the playbook, you know? So the only thing that you have to do is, like, keep doing R&D, understanding conditions, understanding how people, uh, verbalize, uh, their experience, and then you just take that, create new ads, put it in the front end of the system, and the entire system runs.

It's the big domino, you know?

Molly: Yeah. I mean, I'm still having trouble getting-- convincing people why they need online scheduling, so-

Travis: Yeah ...

Molly: I feel like you're-

Travis: That's archaic.

I'm like, "Guys, you gotta have online booking. Like, I'm going to

the next one." You'll ne- you'll never scale, you'll never scale your business to a place where your business can grow past, like, your sanity.

Uh, it's like the, the... I have two businesses right now, two multi-seven-figure businesses, right? Like, we're gonna do nearly $400,000 in revenue this month, which is like I never thought that we would be here. So to be able to operate at the level that we're operating with, with the amount of people that we have, first off on my teams, and second of all, the amount of people that we serve, we have things automated as much as possible.

You gotta, you gotta decrease as much friction as possible so that you can get your cold traffic through to becoming a customer with as little speed bumps as possible along the way. I mean, people have so many options now that if it's-- if, if there's friction and it's not convenient for them, they're not gonna do it, and that's gonna limit your growth potential.

And ultimately, if that's the case, then you're gonna start to declare that certain things don't work, or my community is a hard community, or my market is a hard market, or, you know, people just don't believe in chiropractic in my area, or I can't sell care plan, or whatever they start to come up with to justify the fact that they didn't actually wanna expand their mind and expand their s- their skillsets to grow as a person to then grow as a business.

Molly: Okay. Let's actually-- I'm gonna pivot just a little bit because I get- Okay ... I tend to have a ton of pregnancy and pediatric docs.

Travis: Yeah.

Molly: So I know you've gotta have some good use case. I mean, pregnancy is a short window- Oh, we absolutely do ... yeah, pregnancy is a short window, but

Travis: Yeah, pregnancy. So my, um, the, the associate that's been with me the longest inside of my practice, her name's Dr.

Emily Muri. She has a podcast called Popped, which is a pregnancy and prenatal specific podcast. Um, but a lot of our R&D came through her, and, uh, we crush with pregnancy and pediatric ads. And mainly because, again, it's niche. It's so niche. Like, the more specific that you can be and the smaller that you can make, like, your target audience, the better.

So we get to put a bunch of money behind pregnancy specific ads that with the algorithm are optimized to go out to pregnant women, so we're able to get a lot of pregnant women into our practice, but we use a very similar approach. So we'll use like breach in our ads. You know? We'll use, uh, having... Do, do you wanna have an unmedicated birth?

Like, we'll use in-- When we say condition specific, we don't just mean like back pain. You know? Like-

Molly: Yeah, yeah ...

Travis: like, like fear of, fear of, uh, fear of breach is a condition. Uh, so, so we're able to hyper-target different things that are commonly experienced by pregnant women throughout their pregnancy, and we can get people from, you know, early on first trimester all the way up until, you know, two weeks before delivery.

But then our doc is trained and docs inside of our program are trained. Now you're pre-framing them on, "Yeah, we're gonna get you in three times a week for the next two weeks to do as much work as possible before your delivery, but the, the real gold here is gonna be in your postpartum recovery." And so then you're just pre-framing, and you're trying to get them on a care plan that includes postpartum delivery or, uh, postpartum, uh, adjustments as well.

And so you get them back within the first month, and now you have a lifelong wellness patient that- Nice ... is gonna stay with you through... And a baby. And so we, we teach that as well. Yeah. So yeah, this is-- this can be form fit to any style of practice.

Molly: So what do you say when someone's like, "I'm in a really small town"?

Travis: They crush in a small town. Oh,

Molly: I'm sure.

Travis: Typically, small towns don't have a lot of economic diversity, which means that you don't have a lot of businesses that have modernized And so typically what happens is you have, you know, let's say a small town is like... I mean, we had a guy in rural Kansas who had 4,000 people in his town, and I think they had-- I mean, the chiropractor per capita there was like, it was insane how many chiropractors they had.

But, uh, so he was like, "This isn't gonna work for me. There's no way that this is gonna work." I was like, "Ethan, if you just follow our system, I promise you, I've looked at your market. There's not that much competition there, digital competition. Not that much digital com-" He became locally famous. He became the go-to guy.

His pr-his practice like four X'd within a matter of months using the digital ads. This actually works better in smaller towns like that than it does in larger towns. And it's not that you don't have the same chiropractic competition. It's just that- Yeah ... you know, where are people spending all their time?

On their phones. You know? So you just gotta go where the people are, and right now the people are here. I think it's like six, average is six hours a day that people spend on social media. So if you can put money behind your advertisements, which you're essentially buying attention, you're buying digital real estate, you're buying eyeballs, and you have the right hook, problem aware, solution aware, social proof, call to action with the right automated funnel, then you can put yourself on their feed, you know, seven to ten times a day.

And with the exposure effect, as long as they're seeing you continuously and they have a problem that your practice can solve, eventually they're gonna click that button, and they're gonna come into your practice.

Molly: Are you still seeing the new, new patient special thing? Is that what you do or not at all?

Travis: Oh, yeah.

Molly: Adding that.

Travis: Yeah. You, you, you still have to give a, a compelling or quote unquote "irresistible offer." So you have to h- you have to have a value stack in there. You know, everybody's doing a cost-benefit analysis, so it's like, "Okay, how much is this gonna cost me versus how much value am I going to receive?"

So that's where Triad of trust. That's where you get to bring in your uniqueness, and your uniqueness is your point of differentiation. So this is where you get to become a category of one. And so you just say what only you can say. Look, in our office, we have the most thorough exam in Boulder, and with this exam, you're going to receive a one-on-one consultation with one of our chiropractors, a four-view motion study X-ray analysis, neurological testing, an orthopedic exam, a movement assessment, uh, your first adjustment and/or decompression or SoftWave session all for $59.

And, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's how you want to, uh, get people in. It's the bait, okay? I hate to say it that way, but it is. A lot of people smarter than me call it a mousetrap. Um, but essentially, like, your monetization is not in your exam, and it's not devaluing chiropractic because it's lowering the barrier of entry, so you're actually able to drive more volume into your practice, and then your monetization should be in a high-value care plan.

You're not decreasing the cost of your services. You can actually have higher price points because you have more people coming in that you have a shot to actually persuade into your corrective care plans. So, you know, our LTV in our office is over $6,000, which means that if it costs us $34 to get somebody into our practice and we make 59, well, we just made more money on the exam than it cost us to get them inside of our practice.

And then our conversion percentage, if our entire practice's conversion percentage is over 70, 70% and our average case value is $2,700 and our lifetime value is over $6,000, then we know we have a 70% chance of getting that $59 exam into a $2,700 care plan that eventually turns into a wellness member that turns into a $6,000 return That's where I have the argument around devaluing.

You're not devaluing anything. You know, you're giving them an opportunity to come in and get answers- Right ... and you're just making that as low of a barrier as possible. Because again, 12% utilization rate, if we wanna get that up to 60 to 70%, we gotta give people more ample opportunity to show up in a chiropractic office.

Once they're on our home turf, we know we have the greatest message in healthcare, so all we have to do then is educate them properly, and essentially they turn into lifetime practice members.

Molly: Um, have you seen that-- I know it's pronounced GIF, but I feel like that's the peanut butter, so I always say GIF.

Um, you know the one where the guy's got, like, all the equations over his-- floating over his head? That's why I just felt- Yeah ... like it was happening when you're-- I was like, "Oh, wait, hold on."

Travis: I know. Sorry. Sorry, Molly.

Molly: No, it's great. Like I said, I'm the creative relationship gal. We all have our strengths, right?

You know what I

Travis: mean? Yep, that's right. I'm creative, too, but I had to learn how-- Again, delegation.

Molly: Oh, right, right. I was- I had to learn- Yeah ... I

Travis: had to learn this stuff, you know?

Molly: Yeah. It's a skill I- It was

Travis: important to understand the numbers ...

Molly: it's a skill I need to hone, for sure. Mm-hmm. Um, okay, anything you feel like we haven't covered that you wanna wrap up?

Travis: No. I would say that, you know, one of the, uh, one of the mental barriers is always gonna be a philosophical block. And I think it's around, first off, you know, condition-specific funnels and not wanting to be symptoms focused, which your practice doesn't have to be. And the second one is around the monetization structure.

So, like, you, you have to understand that your business is a business. And, you know, your, your front door-- how you get people in your front door does not determine the value that you provide to your community. And so just because you're running a $59 new patient special does not mean you're v- devaluing your care.

It just means you're increasing the likelihood that somebody's going to show up inside of a chiropractic office. And so I think if you can get around that mental block, and you can actually reap the reward and the liberation that comes from having a full schedule and being able to grow faster than you ever thought possible so that you have to hire more people so that you can reach more people, change more lives, and make more money for you and your family, then I think it's a no-brainer.

That's a win-win all around, and I think that's what true healthcare is about.

Molly: Yeah, 'cause I would say, going back to the condition-specific thing, is, like, if you can get them in-- Like, what got me into chiropractic was, quote, "sciatica." Like, I guess the thought that's what I had. It went all the way down to my toe.

I don't know if that counts, but it hurt.

Travis: That, that typically counts, yeah.

Molly: Okay, well, it hurt real bad. Mm-hmm. I was, like, dragging my leg behind me. And what's wild is when you just get a patient in who comes in for wellness care from the gate, I feel like you don't get the same, like, wow factor as if, like, I came in in so much pain, and I left-- After two adjustments, I had no pain.

So it was like, "Oh, I'm-- Whatever it is you're selling, like-

Travis: I'm in

Molly: I'm in. Like, I was like, because now th- this particular doctor didn't do a great job of like explaining the full benefits, right? 'Cause as soon as I was out of pain, I stopped coming.

Travis: Yeah.

Molly: So w- but now that I've learned more and I've been with some really good doctors, I'm like, "Oh my God, I see.

Like, I see how this..." So you know, that's, that's an internal messaging thing, I would say. Like, once you get the person in your office of actually-

Travis: That's exactly how we say it. You have your out- external or outward facing messaging, which is going to be more condition specific, and then you have your internal messaging.

Like, how do you educate them on your home turf? And that's part of your conversion framework

Molly: So how do people work with you? Tell us a little bit about your program, about Chiro Ads Academy.

Travis: Yeah. So, um, we were h- just having a conversation offline here. Uh, we're pretty full right now, so we're, we're, we're taking on, um, a limited number of clients because we care more about quality of service than we do anything else.

Uh, so we have, like, 20 onboarding so- slots per month. Um, typically what we do is we have them go through a discovery session, uh, with one of our team members, Nicholas, who's one of my dear friends now, and he understands their practice and he, he tries to, uh, see... He has been trained by me now to, to see where the constraints are in businesses.

And, uh, if we truly believe that we can help you and it is a good fit and we do have room, um, then we will book an onboarding call. In that onboarding call, uh, we will outline the entire structure of the program. We will start to build out all of your automation sequences, your funnels, and, uh, work on your landing pages and all the customizations that have to take place.

So that is a done for you, done with you process that we do, so we make that as easy as possible. And then once we get all of that automation, uh, set up, your actual funnel sequencing set up, then we start working on your launch campaign, which again, like I said, is 14 videos. We'll walk you through it. It sounds like a lot, but it's not.

Um, but we walk you through that entire creation process. We do have an in-house editing team, so, uh, we have those sent off with templates and SOPs on how those need to be edited properly. Uh, we will help you place those into your funnel system. Then we will, on a call, walk you through every step of actually placing those ads into a campaign, building out your campaign, your ad set level, and the individual ads.

We will teach you how to actually test those ads through what's called an SVST framework, which is single variable split testing, um, so that you can start to understand the data. And from that point on, it is a problem-solving conversation. It's, okay, uh, here's the metrics that we have after seven to 10 days or a certain amount of budget allocation has been eaten up.

Now we're gonna go look and we're gonna see which of these ads performed the best, which of them performed the worst. The ones that didn't perform well, we're gonna turn those off, but we're gonna analyze those ads and see why didn't those ads perform well, and we're going to put all of the budget behind the ads that performed the best.

We're gonna analyze those ads to see why those ads did well. And essentially, this entire, uh, process is based around a really simple concept of do more of what works and do less of what does not. Amen. Amen to that. Uh, a super simple and profound way to make a lot of money in business And so then they just start to collect data and understand this at a really high level because they know what worked in the past and they do more of that, and then it just works better and better and better with improving results over time, as opposed to most of the ad bros or a lot of the, uh, ads agencies that are popping up out of nowhere that don't really have any credibility that have some type of inflection of results with declining results over time.

And so you just get better, you get better results, and as a byproduct, your practice grows.

Molly: I meant to ask you this before, so just-- I always tell people, 'cause people will ask me about ads, I'm like, "Well, here's what I do know, is I know that when you're posting a lot organically as well, like that's a playground, let's say a free playground to be like, 'Okay, this performed well.

Like this is probably gonna be something that's good to put- Boom ... money behind." Is that right or wrong?

Travis: This pairs so well. Yeah, I mean, mo- in most, most, uh, really big businesses, what they do is they use their organic page as their testing- Yeah ... their testing page. And so they test things on organic to see what, what got good engagement, and then they take that and they turn it into an advertisement with a slightly different advertising framework.

So anybody who's in your program who has learned how to use organic, there's a few benefits to that. First off, what we like to use our organic page as is a landing page. So anybody who wants to build more trust, who's not ready to click claim offer, they're gonna click your handle, and they're gonna go to your page, and you have to have, first off, consistent quality content on your page in order to build trust.

One of the things that I love about you and the people that you work with is they have pinned posts, and they have intentional pinned posts, and people wanna see that. And so you can actually use your pinned post to your advantage in your ad strategy, which is by telling people first who you are, who you serve, what you serve, and who you don't serve.

And so once they actually make it to your page, they can see all of that information. They can actually see that there are people inside of your practice getting a, a great result. They can see that you're providing tons of free value. Um, if they're not ready, still not ready to claim your offer, they're gonna click follow.

And then they get to, you know, get ac- get exposed to the organic content that you can nurture them with over time until eventually they become a new patient. Is that helpful?

Molly: No, that's a great-- Yeah. I mean, I think I told you this story when I was on your show, like I was going to buy these like sleep CBD gummy things, and the ad got me, and I was like, "Let me just like see if they- Yeah

have organic comments." So I clicked like exactly what you said. I clicked over to their page, and they hadn't posted organically in so long that their very first pinned post, all of the comments under that one was, "Are y'all still in business?"

Travis: Yep, exactly. Yeah, there's-- I think there's two like kind of key Key things that for me specifically, I immediately lose trust, it's that, super organic posts that have very little engagement, that look super unintentional, that you can't tell whether they're a real business or not, or two, they've bought a bunch of followers.

I don't know what your thoughts are on that. I've got nothing for you. I do. You

Molly: do? You

Travis: seem to- I do. Well, and mainly like- Yeah. I love it, had it ... the chiropractic coaching, like the chiropractic coaching industry and competitive marketing agencies, competitors. They, they're just trying to buy credibility, and like as soon as I get to their page, I'm like, "Brother, 116,000 followers and your last reel got, you know, 113 views."

Like these numbers don't add up. Yeah.

Molly: I just crossed over 10,000 followers. Uh-

Travis: Let's go, Molly.

Molly: Thank you. And I at first was like, "God." A

Travis: huge accomplishment.

Molly: Well, thank you, but I had this moment of like, "God, are you really not good at this, that you just now..." But do you know- What? ... that that is a clean, like my 10,000 are clean.

Like they are-

Travis: Molly ...

Molly: good people

Travis: Imagine if I snap my fingers right now and you had 10,000 people in your house

Molly: I know, and I teach that,

Travis: right? Or you were surrounded by 10,000 people. You'd be like, "Oh my gosh, you guys are overwhelming. I'm gonna need y'all to back up."

Molly: You know what's funny is I teach that exact-- I say that.

I'm like, "Oh, you got seven likes? Imagine seven people standing in your clinic waiting room." Yeah. I say that, but you know you can't see, re- what do they say? You can't- I know ... look at the label from insid- inside a bottle. Yeah. You're like, "Oh, I teach this. I should've had more." But I'm like, my email list, my, my fault, like it's clean.

Like it's a, it's a, like these are my people.

Travis: Yeah.

Molly: You know?

Travis: I, again, not to like be throwing out number-- I hate when people do that, but like, look, we built two- Mm-hmm ... multi-seven figure businesses with like 1,000 followers on Instagram.

Molly: Great.

Travis: Yeah. Yeah. So like y- followers does not equal money or business growth.

Molly: Well, especially not anymore because the algorithm doesn't, is not showing your content to followers mostly. It's like interests and- Yeah,

Travis: exactly.

Molly: So it doesn't matter ... you know, I don't even know why, I don't even know why they have followers anymore 'cause I'm like, "What? You're not even, you're not even-- It doesn't even matter."

Okay, so you've talked about your program. How can people find you? There, there's an application process?

Travis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, um, first off, Instagram is gonna be makingmoves_chiros. Uh, it's moves as M-U-V-S. Uh, my practice is called Muv Chiropractic in Boulder, Colorado, M-U-V. Oh,

Molly: you got... Okay.

Travis: Yeah.

Molly: Okay.

Travis: Yeah. So it was a play off of that, um, makingmoves_chiros.

You can find us on Instagram there, and then if you wanna access more of-- We have a free training in our bio. I have a lot of YouTube, uh, content. I have, uh, podcast episodes that are super valuable as well. But yeah, if you're interested, you know, you can click the link in bio. You can find, uh, our link to a free training, and I'll walk you through how this system actually works.

And I'll do it in a, a much more, uh, comprehensive way 'cause I'll have my PowerPoint slides there. Uh, so you'll get to see exactly how this system works and whether or not it's a good fit for your practice. And if you think that it is, then you can book a call with Nicholas, uh, one of my team members, and he'll be able to walk you through everything.

Molly: What's your podcast name again? Is it just

Travis: Making Moves or- It's, it's Making Moves. Yeah. It, it's Making Moves: The Arena, uh, 'cause it's-- I'm a big Teddy Roosevelt fan, so it's just kinda like the gladiator inside of the arena, which, um, you know, I feel like entrepreneurship is. It's like we're constantly marred by blood and dust and tears and sweat- Yeah

and we're constantly fighting the lion, you know? So that's what all of my- Yeah. We- You see all of this stuff in my background? This is my identity right now. I'm like, man, I'm just inside the arena constantly, and it never gets easier. You just get better.

Molly: I know. Some- Yeah, 'cause I, I sometimes I just need a good cry, and then I'm like, "All right."

Travis: I know. "

Molly: I'm gonna go again." I just need to cry for a minute. Feel the same way. Now I'm ready to go again.

Travis: Back at it.

Molly: Mm-hmm. All right. Thank you so much, Travis. This was, like absolutely incredible. I knew it would be.

Travis: Thanks, Molly

Molly: Thank you for listening to Holistic Marketing Simplified. And hey, you know how every podcaster at the very end of their episode asks you to rate and review their podcast?

Well, that's because it's super important. These podcasts take a lot of time, and heart, and effort to produce to bring you free information. So in order for me to be able to continue doing that, we need more people to find out about the show. So if you could please just take like two minutes out of your very busy day to leave me a rating and share this on your Instagram stories and tag @mollyacahill.

That's C-A-H-I-L-L. I would greatly, greatly appreciate your support. I know your time is valuable, and I can't wait to see you in the next episode.