How to Niche Without Losing Your Voice: Business and Marketing Tips from 7 Figure Clinic Owner Dr. Emily Kiberd [Episode 119]

Molly: Hello, my lovelies and welcome back. At the time this episode comes out, it's like last week of school for the kiddos around here. I don't know how it is for you. So I personally really love the summer. I know like there's like mixed reviews on summers, but I love having my daughter home. I do still have childcare even though she's eight and can entertain herself.

But I just find that if I don't have somebody here, she just ends up spending way too much time on her iPad and then like I can't focus on work 'cause I'm like trying to police her screen time and all that jazz. So we always have the girl next door usually comes and hangs out with her from like nine to one every morning and it works out great.

So anyway, I'd love to hear what your summer plans are. Um, today's episode is with my friend Dr. Emily Kibar. We first connected and met like years ago in a mastermind, and we've just kind of kept in touch, but she's just so fascinating to me. She's just one of these, like, you know how you have those people who can just kind of do anything?

I don't know. I feel like she's one of those people. She's just really, really wise and, and business savvy. Like she's just kinda one of those people who could figure it out. We kind of talk about how, so she was a, or she's still a chiropractor, but, but she just doesn't see patients regularly anymore. She grew a seven figure clinic in New York and we talk, she even saw like celebrities and stuff.

So we talk about that and we talk about some ways that she created an elevated patient experience and she attributes that to her success in her clinic. Now that she's mostly pivoted to online business, we also talk a lot about niching down. We also talk, talk a lot about niching for your brick and mortar as well, and we're like demystifying, debunking some myths on niching that it has to be like women over 35 who are trying to get pregnant.

Like it doesn't have to be that type of niche. So we're kind of talking about that. We're talking about market research and how to do market research like the right way. And then also talking about balancing like if you still have a brick and mortar practice. But you're trying to add on some type of additional like online offer and how to actually do that realistically without, you know, burning out.

So I really hope you enjoy this episode. And without further ado, I. Let's get into this interview with Dr. Emily Kibar.

Hey, welcome to Holistic Marketing Simplified. This podcast boils down to the fact that we wholeheartedly believe that more humans need to know about holistic health solutions, and you didn't go to school to learn how to be a. Full-time content creator and show up on Instagram and do all of this marketing stuff all day, every day.

So let's come hanging out while we chat. All things ease in your marketing and my goal is that you shift your mindset around your marketing from a quote should to a I get to more dream patients and clients. Yes, please.

Dr. Abby: Hello, my name is Dr. Abby Parrish, and I'm a chiropractor located in Old Town Daphne, Alabama, and I listen to the Holistic Marketing Simplified Podcast.

Molly: Emily, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I am sorry we've had a couple reschedules, but we're finally here.

Dr. Emily: Oh, thanks so much for having me, girl. I'm so happy to be here.

Molly: Okay, so tell me a little bit about, I mean, you've got quite the story I feel like. You and I connected, actually, we were in a, I guess we'd call it a mastermind together a couple years ago, and obviously I was like, oh, she's a chiropractor.

Like we need to connect. But yeah. Tell us a little about, a little bit about you and your story.

Dr. Emily: Yeah, so I've been a chiropractor since 2007 and I went to school in Portland, Oregon, and I straight up graduated and moved to New York City, and I worked for someone at first, for about a year and a half, I actually had thought, did I choose the wrong profession?

It wasn't that I chose the wrong profession, it was just that I was meant to work for myself and not work for someone else.

Molly: Yeah.

Dr. Emily: Uhhuh. Yep. Which was such a great realization because that I, if I had pivoted to something else, I'd probably still be searching for like what's my thing? So I opened my own clinic and grew very quickly.

Within three years we were hitting seven figures. Wow. And even within six months it was, I need to hire billing, front desk, massage, another associate. And as I grew. The driving force was, how can I do this better? 'cause there's lots of chiropractors in New York City, there's a lot of men in New York City.

How can I elevate the experience, not just making someone feel better with my hands, with my touch, with helping them heal, but from the moment they walk in the door talking to the front desk, the moment they leave, how can it feel like, wow, I've come home to heal. And so that was really my driving force for growing.

We brought on a strength coach, barefoot podiatrist, acupuncturist physiatrist, who was doing PRP injections, and so it came this Oh

Molly: yeah.

Dr. Emily: Multidisciplinary clinic. The goal was like, let's just get everyone to heal, but then also take care of themselves. So the goal was not, hey, come in for life. Yeah. Which might be the through line of a lot of wellness packages at chiropractic clinics.

It was, let's get you better. Let's get you strong and let's give you the tools for life so that you can go take care of yourself. And we're here if you need us. Yeah, but the goal was not, let's see you every other week for the rest of your life. I had a team of 10, it's called Urban Wellness Clinic in New York City, and we saw Samuel L.

Jackson, you know, models, celebrities, you name it. Lots of hedge fund, lots of people sitting. And in 2016 I had my first kiddo Elvis and was just burning the candle at both ends, running the clinic, the team not sleeping, and 18 months later, exhausted, couldn't lose weight. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune thyroid disease, and I was like, okay, I'm obviously need to do this smarter.

I need to do this better. I was also building an online piece of the clinic at the time. I'll dive into the Hashimoto's just a little bit, but I think the beauty of building a clinic is you can make it whatever you want. So we had the clinic, the physical brick and mortar. We had a corporate wellness division where we'd go into really hedge funds and law firms and talk about nutrition and ergonomics, and we did yoga and strength training on site.

And then we're like, Hey, if you need us, we have this clinic that was its own multi six figure business. And then we had a movie division where we would go on set and treat not only the actors, but all of the, all of the people on set that are behind the scenes. So I. You know, we would go see Adrian Brody and we had these three different divisions.

It wasn't just a clinic. So I think one of the beautiful things about being your an entrepreneur and a business owner is you can dream it and make it and build it. You know, like a piece of clay, however you want. It doesn't just have to be, oh, I gotta see 40 people a day. Right? It can really be whatever you want.

And then there was the online piece, which was focused more on the autoimmune. But you can imagine building all those pieces. It can be exhausting. It can give you an autoimmune condition.

Molly: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Dr. Emily: So I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and luckily I worked with a great functional medicine doc, Dr.

Gabrielle Lyon put it into remission a year later. So no symptoms, no medication. Labs looked great, had energy, could lose weight when I wanted, I noticed that there was a missing piece in the autoimmune world, which is people take supplements, they look at labs, I. They change how they're eating. Maybe they address some root causes like I did, which was like mold exposure, parasites.

But they're not looking at the movement and strength piece, like how to feed your muscle to stay strong, to regulate your hormones. And so from that experience of suffering with an autoimmune condition, built a course, launched it multiple times. Then Covid happened in New York City and I had a 4-year-old and a nine month old, and there was no one coming in.

No matter how much they love you. Yeah. They're like, we're not taking a train a cab. We're not leaving the house for months and months and months and months. So I decided, listen, here is a turning point. I can either really push the boulder uphill and try to like save the clinic and keep it open, or I can close the clinic.

Be with my kids. 'cause I always had a little mom guilt like, I'm at work, but I should be with my kids and pivot online. And that's what I did through Covid really grew. I. A multi six figure online business. I was like, wow, that lack of overhead is really nice.

Molly: Oh yeah. Yeah. Did you

Dr. Emily: sell

Molly: the

Dr. Emily: clinic

Molly: or?

Dr. Emily: I didn't sell the clinic.

It was really like, okay. Like I actually still go to New York like maybe once a quarter every other month to see my clients. 'cause I just love them so much and it gives me a little dose of New York. 'cause during Covid I moved to, um, Bulger, Colorado. So. I still have all my patient files. I still love them, like all my patients so dearly.

I just, I wanted the freedom to drop my kids off at school, pick them up, get the afterschool, download that like only you get if you do pick up. Yeah. You know, and so that was a birth of my online course, thyroid Strong. And I had a lot of practitioners coming to me asking like, Hey, I noticed you have this online thing and I know you had this clinic.

Like how do you do it? And that opened up kind of a whole nother, you know, growing the business and following like, okay, where am I gonna take this? Next was helping brick and mortar owners who see patients all day. They don't have time to be like, okay, I just saw 10 hours of patients. Lemme go watch this course.

Figure out the tech hire a VA like that is also overwhelming. And so now I help clinic owners. Done with you. So it's kind of a mix of business coaching, creating the idea messaging, but then, hey, let's take out all the headache of the tech and all the headache of like should it be this or a PDF or a membership, and really use strategies at work to create another division of your business.

Because when you're trading time for money, there's only two options. You either hire staff, which is more overhead, right? Associates. Or you raise your rates and you're always kind of still trading time for money,

Molly: and

Dr. Emily: now here's this option where the world is your oyster. Like I have people in the uk, Australia, in my course, you could reach anyone.

It doesn't matter if you're in a small town and like everyone's only charging $50 a visit online. That doesn't matter. You know, if you could only see, I don't know, a hundred, 200 people a week online, you could see thousands. So I think it's this really beautiful model that. Brick and mortar owners can step into it doesn't have to be either or.

It can be both.

Molly: Yeah. Well, and I love, this is something you and I talked about before we, before I hit record, is that I get like all sorts of pissed off when I hear all the like, just create your course girl. You have all this passive income. Like, it's like, um, okay, and you're supposed to do this. When you're still seeing 200 patients a week and be family and like, it's just so unrealistic and so that's why I love that your program is, like you said, like done with you, like you're actually taking care of some of the heavy lifting.

Dr. Emily: I mean, a lot of people I work with, a lot of women. Like my niche is women, and I'm like, oh, that's so sweet. But that's not a niche. Yeah. It was not only the guidance of like messaging and like, okay, what's the thing you wanna put into the world? That's gonna be your legacy, but also how can we do it in a way I.

The, the phrase like, let it be easy. Like everything doesn't have to feel like a grind. Oftentimes when we build our brick and mortars, it's like a grind and like outreach and SEO and networking and affiliate and JV partnerships. And it's a grind. It's a hustle. But the online piece, it is also a building phase, but it can also be built in so many different ways, kind of like a clinic.

And so I really try to. Still like, okay, like let it be easy. Let me help you guide you. Let's get the VAs on board to build it. You don't have to do everything like you did at the beginning of your clinic. It can be done better, smarter.

Molly: And then in addition to if someone's listening to this and they don't want to dive into the world of online business, you also have another offer that you help with, uh, brick and mortar clinics with, if you wanna talk about that.

Dr. Emily: Yeah. So, you know, my clinic grew to a seven figure clinic very quickly. I think some of the things that I really. Honed in on helped do that. And even when I had my clinic back in 20 16, 20 15, I had chiropractors calling being like, Hey, can I just like come in and shadow you for a day? Can I sit down with your billing manager?

And just, it was giving guidance to local chiropractors and they got so much out of that. And so now it's helping six figure clinic owners really take the next leap to making seven figures. 'cause the mindset and the strategies to get to a hundred thousand is gonna be different than 500,000. Yeah. Is gonna be different than a seven figure clinic.

It is very, very different. And so really helping break any sort of mindset blocks, but also creating systems strategies. Team building, right? Because to get to seven figures, you can't do it by yourself. You do need a team and you need everyone on board. And like, one of the things when I had my clinic was how can we get everyone to feel like they are part of this ecosystem?

Like just like we want our patients to have the experience when they walk in the office. I wanted my, the people who were part of the clinic, my team, to feel the same. So every quarter it was. Bringing in, instead of sending someone our team to a continuum education, I wanna bring that continuum education in-house.

Mm-hmm. And have Brett Winchester come in the office and teach my team so that they can be asking like, Hey, you know, we all treated this client, let's ask Brett questions about that client. Like it was very personalized. We brought in Phil Jones, who is a public speaker and has a book called Exactly What to Say, which is about how to sell without being salesy so that we could all be on the same wavelength, using the same verbiage so that if I said, Hey, if you recommend something and the sentence with so that you can

Molly: mm-hmm.

Dr. Emily: Everyone knows what we're talking, like Everyone knew what I was talking about 'cause we had all done the same training. I think team development and having people. Feel their worth and feel seen and feel valued was also, it's another thing to get you from six figures to seven figures.

Molly: So I'm gonna go back to the so that you can, 'cause I've actually heard that before from another.

Do you know Alison Hardy? Do we know her together? Yeah. Yeah, I was about to say. I feel like we both know her too. I've heard her teach that before too. She's a great email marketing person. If she was on the podcast way back in the beginning, I've actually got to hang out with her in real life one time when I went to dc, but I.

Talk to me a little bit about the, so that, 'cause I think with your messaging, like going back and you talk about the niche, like my niche is women, or my favorite is that I always say is like, I'm like, all right, if you have the word vitality or like, live your best life or, you know, get back to health in any of your mission statements.

Like, let's, let's, I mean, maybe as an overall mission statement, that's not bad, but you see what I'm saying? Like, you gotta be a little more specific. So. When you're saying the, so that you can, I dunno if you wanna give an example of that. 'cause I think it's such a, it's such an easy thing to weave into your messaging.

Dr. Emily: When we're thinking about messaging, sometimes we think about what, what is, what do I wanna say as a person with the course. Speaking to an audience, what do I wanna say? And really it's how can you speak so the people listening feel seen, they feel heard, and they feel this connection, even though it's through a screen, right?

Messaging is all about connection and storytelling. How can your person feel, seen, feel heard. And when they read the words that you put out there, they feel like, oh my God, she could have just written my week last week. Through my storytelling on my sales page for Thyroid Strong, I talk about how I just had a kid, I was trying to lose the weight by going to double SoulCycle classes, like 90 minutes of spinning, and I literally have women be like, you just wrote my life for the last like six months of what I've been trying to do to lose weight.

When we use the phrase so that you can, it just takes a sentence and makes it relatable to the person on the other side of the screen. So. What would be an example? An example would be you're putting, I'm trying to think

Molly: about build. I'm trying to think. For you. You could be like, learn how to build muscle so that you can manage your,

Dr. Emily: yeah.

So that you can I. Then it's what does that person design? Like why do they wanna lose weight? So, okay, here's an example, and this is more in the autoimmune fatigue space. So I had a woman on a sales call tell me, I feel like I'm sitting on the sidelines of my life. My daughter asked me to go hiking and I say no, even though I really wanna go because I'm worried that I'm not gonna be able to make dinner, do the rest of the evening 'cause I'm gonna be so exhausted.

Focus on getting your energy back so that you can be a present mother and do the things you wanna do with your kids.

Molly: Yep, exactly right. So

Dr. Emily: that connects, like you can read the word fatigue or get your energy back and be like, okay, what does that really mean? But you use the phrase so that you can, and it makes it relatable, it makes it storytelling.

It makes a person feel seen. Another great line that would be more towards the brick and mortar is because you said, so anytime before you make a recommendation, the person has to share, right? A little bit of their struggle, and then you use a phrase, because you said, I blank. Now I'm going to make the recommendation that we can help you.

Molly: Yeah. So

Dr. Emily: that you can, so that you can go play sports and you know, be the best you know, father to your kids. So that's a great phrase. So that was the kind of stuff we were bringing into team trainings. Oh. Because people are like so good. Oh yeah. Okay. Like, our clinic can help you and we do this, this, this, this kind of similar to a sales page.

Sometimes we put the deliverables of like, you get. Live calls and, you know, eight weeks of support and people are like, okay, but why, why do I need this? Right. They don't have buy in, so. Yeah.

Molly: And that's actually, I love that 'cause I did not tell Emily to say any of this stuff, but this is how I teach a lot of messaging stuff too.

I, I have a messaging exercise where I'm like, literally, you don't even have to think about this stuff. It's all on your intake forms. Yeah. Just go look at your intake forms. What did people write down? If they wrote down, I'm having, you know, five my losing five days a month with the migraines. Like there it is right there.

There's your messaging. Like you don't have to, it's not that difficult. Yeah. And you can even like go look at your Google reviews, like what language are people using on their Google reviews? For me, I, this is giving me some ideas 'cause I'm getting ready to completely redo my sales page for Holistic Marketing hub because we, we looked at the data, we were like, oh, here's the problem.

Like we were looking at my funnel and we're like. What is happening. It's like, and so I was working with this business coach and she was so funny. She was like, Molly, you are nowhere on this page. She's like, like, I mean, my picture is some, but she's like, this doesn't sound like you. This isn't how you talk.

Like she's like, you're fracturing trust because I. They hear you talk one way in your emails and your videos, and then they get to the sales page and they're like, wait, am I getting hurt or not? You've just given me some ideas of how I could use this. 'cause it's like the pain point I always hear is consistency.

Like I'm having trouble posting consistency so consistently so it's like. You told me you're having trouble posting consistently, so I've, I'm going to recommend this so that you can, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and I, I love that, like you said, it's such an easy phrase whether you are, like you said, talking this like internal marketing, like once the patient's, actually, your client's actually in the door or on the discovery call with you, or like you said, if they're just landing on a sales page and you're looking at text or in your reels or any of your content.

I also wanna go way back to something you said very. Very in the beginning, because I'm not sure, I think your episode will actually air the week after a replay of one of my all time favorite podcast episodes. I joke in the episode that a business coach would look at it and be like, this is a dumb episode, Molly, because it doesn't actually like lead into any of my programs.

But because I, we were military and we've moved so much and I've, I've been to so many chiropractors, acupuncturists, massage health coaches. Therapist, you name it. I've been to so many different ones. I did a whole episode on like, Hey, here's some things that I wish people would do. To like make my experience as the patient or client better.

Yeah. And I talked about things like the scheduling process, fluorescent lighting. Oh yes. I'm like allergic to it, I swear. Yes, I hear you.

Dr. Emily: I mean, when I designed my office I had because instead of laying and the lights are right on you. I had a dropdown ceiling and then the lights were around the dropdown, so would bounce off the ceiling.

So I never had to turn on the high hats. So it was always like kind of like bounced off ambiance lighting from the dropdown. Does that make sense?

Molly: Yeah, yeah. Well that's why I wanna talk about this. I wanna go back in the very beginning, you said, talking about, you said how one of the things you attribute to your clinic's success was.

You really doubled down on like the feel and how they felt when they got there. So I'd love to hear some of your takeaway or your, like if you had to give people a few tips on that. Yeah. Like how you created the experience.

Dr. Emily: So how many times have you gone to an office and the desk is really high and there's a computer screen and they're like, hi.

Yeah. Kinda like right, like very unwelcoming. So I purposefully dropped the front of my desk down. I had my computers lower so that when someone enter, I mean it wasn't super low, there was still a little barrier, but when someone entered, they saw the receptionist face and I. It was an experience of feeling welcomed versus coming into an office and you're like, okay, I know there's someone behind that desk, behind that computer.

Should I go to the desk? Right? It was just, I wanted to create this like welcoming feeling of you've come home and we are here to take care of you, and we are going to hold you in the process. So from an aesthetic, that was one thing. Even from that feeling of being held and hugged, I had in my reception like a dropdown, like stained wooden slat ceiling to feel like the room like hugged you.

The walls in my office. When you walked in and you kind of, you came in and then you came, there were two hallways. The walls were curved. Oh. 'cause I wanted to feel this, like this extension of flow of like, yeah, we're not just like chiropractic, like adjust by. It was like there is this, this flow and this guidance of being held from like I am broken and in pain to.

Breathing, rehab adjustment, massage. I'm strong and I can take on the world and be my best self. Like that's a process that doesn't happen overnight. And so I wanted to feel this sense of flow. And so I made the walls in my office. Curved light was really important. So in some of the spaces, I had a glass wall so the light could come into the hallway.

If you're going down a hallway and you're like, oh, it's like kind of dark and creepy. Yeah. As walking into the treatment room, I didn't want that experience. I had a, I had a sink in every room. 'cause I wanted to have my practitioners feel like washing their hands was an energetic shift from one patient to the next.

Oh, that's so smart. Yeah. Like, you know, 'cause you don't wanna carry that energy. For some people you might be the first healing hands that have ever been placed on them. Yeah. I mean those were some of the details from the physical space, even from the moment of like. Walking outta the office. I wanted to like for someone to feel like, Hey, we can hold space for you to speak.

Sometimes you'll be like talking to the receptionist for a long time and feel like they were held even after they left the office. Like, Hey, here's an email. Here's your exercises. You have questions, let us know. So it wasn't just, okay, I'm walking outta the treatment room and I'm out of here. It was from the moment they walk in to even after they have left the office.

Okay. Think about it from a patient. Your patient walks out of your treatment room and they go to the front desk and the front desk person goes, so when do you wanna come in again?

Dr. Abby: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Emily: And it's a little bit of like, well, when does the doctor want me to come in again? I

Dr. Abby: hate that question

Dr. Emily: plan. Right. So a lot of times I'd have the associate, the doctor walk the person to the front desk.

And be like, Hey, my, my front desk gals was Melissa. Melissa, you know, Michael here is gonna come in, you know, twice a week for the next three weeks so we can really get on top of his low back pain. She's like, great, let me set it up. There was no hesitation from the client. There was total buy-in and there was a plan, there was a game plan.

It wasn't just, let's fill the bank account, right? Like let's get you schedule as much as possible. There was intentionality to why someone's coming in or it was like, Hey, Michael's gonna come in, but then like on week three, I'm gonna have 'em see the trainer as well. 'cause we need to get him strong.

Molly: I can't tell you how many times I even like, well, when do you wanna schedule?

I'm like. No, like I'm coming to you because you're the expert. Like based on what you're seeing and feeling from me, like when do I need, yeah, you tell me. It'd be like somebody, I always say, it'd be like somebody coming to me and me being like, well, how often do you want me to post for you? You're like, well, I don't know.

You're, you're the social media expert. You tell me. I'm like, oh, just, you know, whenever you feel like having me post, I will post. It's like, no, that's not what you came to me for. I recently saw someone for NET. She's lovely. Actually. I don't know if she's listening to this, but if you are, here's my tip for you.

Um, she's like, yeah, just really after one session, one NET session, she's like, just, you know, whenever you wanna come back. I talked to my friend Dr. Carly, who is like literally on a year long wait list at her practice and NET is one of her main modalities, and I was, I was like, Hey, I had my first NET session today.

She's like, great, how'd you like it? She's like, just so you know, you need a minimum of five sessions. You usually feel any shift. I'm like, really? Because now it's got me thinking I can, I can come in once and like just whenever I feel like it, I can schedule again and you've lost me as a patient. Versus actually getting me the transformation that I came for.

Hey, like you said, use your language. You told me that you want to, like right now dealing with this hidal hernia pain, like you told me that you want relief from this, so I'm gonna recommend you can cut you come in five times so that you can find relief from your

Dr. Emily: Exactly. And I think brick and mortar owners focus so much on their skills, their craft, their hands.

What's the next continuing education course I need to take? And that is important. I. But it's like 20% of the whole picture, of the whole experience that you're taking someone through maybe that N-A-T-N-E-T practitioner that said, okay, come back whenever you want. That's great. But it's not creating a guidance.

It's not having someone feel held in these, well, it's not, well, it's not giving a

Molly: result. You know? Like that's, yeah, that too, one session. You know, like, I'm like that too. And she's lovely. Like she's, you could tell she was like truly gifted at it. Like I don't think that's a. Technique that just anybody could do.

You have to have kind of that intuitive, like you're almost like a therapist, you know what I mean? Totally. And I'm like, wow, I wanna keep coming back. But then I start second guessing. I'm like, oh, should, should I come back? Do you want me to come back? Literally, I've had that thought like, do you want me, I have literally had practitioners where I have thought, do they want me to come back?

Like, am I being a hypochondriac because I'm scheduling too often. Like, that's the last thing you want. Your patient or client to have in their mind. I mean,

Dr. Emily: people are paying you to be told what to do. Yes. And when you can hold that space as an authority who's also empathetic and has, you know, great hands and is great at what they do, you can start to up your rates.

My rates in New York City were four 50 an hour, two 50 for half an hour. Like most chiropractors charge $50 for, mm-hmm. I don't know, 15 minutes.

Molly: 50. 50 to 75 is like the mess.

Dr. Emily: Yeah. Yeah. And people would not bat an eye. They'd be like, okay.

Molly: No, I love that. I mean, I'm already like, I'm like, oh, this is gonna be such a good episode.

'cause I love when there's like little like really easy takeaways that you're like, wow, I can totally like take that into my clinic and implement it today. Yeah. And so, yeah, even if you're online, like you said, there's, you know that if you're still doing discovery calls or whatever, like to get people into your program.

It's so validating for the patient or the client. Like what that little nugget you just said like, Hey, we're gonna see him twice a week for the next two weeks, so we can really get on top of that low back pain. Like how validating for the patient. They're like, oh, she was listening. This is what my issue is and she's listening and she has a plan for me.

Yes. To get me better. Yes. Oh yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah. Okay, so shifting gears, well, not really shifting gears Totally, but let's talk, I wanna talk a little bit more about. The niche piece, if that's okay. Yeah. And kind of like step one of like if, if you are, you've got these ideas of wanting to do something online, floating around your head, kind of like what guidance would you give people?

Dr. Emily: Yeah. I think one of the f because it's a little bit of market research and market research is really. Market action. Oh, okay. When you first start, you kind of don't know sometimes.

Molly: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Emily: Like I was like, I want to give Hashimoto's women, women with Hashimoto's rehab exercises and workouts. And then it evolved to, I wanna help women with Hashimoto's workout without the burnout.

And then it evolved to, you know, and lose weight. I think at first it's, if you're like, I wanna help women, it's. What do you wanna talk about every single day and put out into the world and leave as your legacy? Even on the days you don't wanna show up.

Molly: Yeah, no, and I love that. I actually got some feedback from somebody recently who was trying to hone in on their niche, and she's like, I just don't wanna be pigeonholed.

What if I wanna pivot? I'm like. Well, you can Yeah. Then pivot. Yeah. It, it's not like whatever you pick today is like, this is etched in stone and I have to

Dr. Emily: Yeah. And I think you know the saying, like, you speak to everyone, you speak to, no one is very true. If you're like trying to reach everyone when you put content words, real sales page, the written word out there.

If you're trying to speak to everyone, someone's gonna watch your content and be like, eh, she's not really talking to me.

Molly: Yeah. I'm gonna see if I can find this without it being too, um, yeah. Disruptive. But yeah, I, I even just saw the other day it came up on my explore page. This woman, instead of being like, you know, gut, I feel like gut health.

Is, you know, pretty nichey, right? But then not

Dr. Emily: really,

Molly: right?

Dr. Emily: There's like

Molly: exactly this.

Dr. Emily: So it's like gut health, weight loss.

Molly: She nervous coach. Yeah. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what a great niche because I. People are still gonna come to you for placebo, for

Dr. Emily: acne, for 'cause it's all related. But at the end of the day, the person on the other side of the screen wants to feel seen.

They wanna feel heard. They want connection. And so if you're like lose weight, you're like, okay, is that for me? 'cause I'm like a type a high powered, entrepreneurial like woman. Are you talking to me or are you talking about like. You know, lose weight if you've never worked out before. 'cause that would not be for me.

I've been working out for 30 years. So that's two different people. Yeah, two different people. And so it will feel uncomfortable to niche down, but I have found that the people, you know, the, they say the riches is in the niches for a reason, is because the people who do niche down. Build a raving fan audience of women that are just like people, not just women.

We're like, oh my God, like I want to be in this person's ecosystem because they know exactly what I'm going through.

Molly: So I just found this, I found her account and I thought I had saved one of her posts and I couldn't find it. But literally, this is how you know you're a good niche. I literally just typed in the word constipation and she came up, her name line is her name, Rosalyn, and then constipation nutritionist.

Her bio is start having glorious morning poops and get back to living your damn life. And I love that. Love it. So good. Think it's so good. Good. It's so specific. And like I said, people are definitely still gonna be like, Hey, I have heartburn, or hey, I have like, people can make that leap. Like for example, who I've, I've been working with one-on-one.

I know her just 'cause she was one of my clients. And you know how you get on with people, you're just like, oh, your energy is just glorious and whatever I can do to be in your bubble, I will do. She's a fertility coach, but I'm not trying to conceive, but I've been working with her 'cause she's like, I mean really I do all women's health, but like fertility is my niche.

So it's like people will still seek you out and find you. Like I had a photographer the other day ask like, can I buy your course? I'm like, I mean, yeah, if you like,

Dr. Emily: it's, I love it. Yeah, and I think once you niche down, for example, if you're only doing gut health. And you're doing SIBO gut health, it's not like you're not gonna be addressing parasites and, you know, talking about food and supplements, like all of that stuff can happen.

I mean, think about some of the, um, think about Jenna Kutcher, right? Yeah. So she's like Pinterest course, email marketing course. Like she has all these different things because she niched down and then she opened up. And so I think once you niche down, you have your niche. Then you have an audience that loves you and just wants more of you, that then you become the niche.

Molly: Yeah. And

Dr. Emily: then you can go wider because,

Molly: and then

Dr. Emily: you can go wider.

Molly: Yeah. I've, I've already, like, I've been known as like the Instagram and now I'm kind of like, I still love it. It's still my favorite platform, but there's a couple other things I want to add on, like I've been thinking about and dabbling with and I Now I can do that because, but when I first started out, I didn't just have the health niche.

I had like a realtor client. I had a hairstylist. Whatever. And it had a blogger, um, it just kind of evolved to where I was like, Ooh, I really like this subset better. So you can almost kind of like reverse it too, like, um, yeah. Um, I know like the whole throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks thing gets a bad reputation, but I think sometimes it could be an ex exercise in market research just to kind of be like, I liked talking about this.

People liked it when I talked about this because your market

Dr. Emily: research. Yeah, because your market research turned into market action. And I think what happens is when we niche down or we're thinking about niching down, we get stuck. We get in like a free state and then we don't do anything. For example, like market research and being like, call your 10 closest friends and da da and interview like that never resonated with me.

Like I did that and I was like, you know, I just need to like start putting stuff out there and see what resonates. From the inside and then also what people are responding to. Yeah. So it was like market action was really my market research.

Molly: Yeah. Um, I think a lot of people do, like they get a bad, like you said, it gets a bad reputation of just throw spaghetti at the wall.

Sometimes you just, I don't know. Maybe I'm not a millionaire yet, but yeah. And it also

Dr. Emily: is like, what is your. What do you wanna respond to? So for example, um, two years ago, I created a reel about mold and I literally, my kids were in the bathroom taking a shower and I was like, okay, I just gotta get something out.

And it went viral. It has like millions and millions of views. And then I was like, all right, let's ride this train. I know about mold, I just don't talk about it. And multiple reels going viral. And now my Hashimoto's niche has been women with Hashimoto's who wanna strength train, have gut issues, and potentially have mold.

Molly: Yeah. And those are

Dr. Emily: the people I work one-on-one from like a functional medicine space. I. If I had never put that reel together and been like, I gotta get something out. Let's just see what happens with this. Right. It's just data. I try to keep emotional neutrality, like I try not to be like, oh my God, that one tanked.

Ugh. Right. I'm just like, okay, next.

Molly: Yeah. Well that's, that's the difference. The main difference I see between people who have been able to scale and people who don't are one, the people who treat everything like data don't get in that perfectionist mindset. And two, it's the people who. Delegate and outsource.

Yeah. I feel like that's the other like huge differentiator. The people who hold onto everything so close and they're like, Ugh, someone could never help me with my social media because they would never get my voice. Those are usually the people I find that I'm like, Ooh, get stuck. So I kind of, since I am, like I said, the Instagram.

We'll, we'll kind of wrap up on that if it's okay. Talking about social media stuff. So you've grown quite the following. What do you find is like working best for. Is it mostly your Hashimoto's account? Like your

Dr. Emily: Yeah, that's where I pour into most. Okay. Usually one-on-one clients for business coaching are coming to me through a referral.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So what's working

Molly: on like Yeah, like what have you, what have you found has been like your, oh, this is, I'm doubling down on this. This is what's been working for me.

Dr. Emily: Yeah. So I have a VA that looks at all my Instagram posts, categorizes them into what they were, and then puts all the. All the data in a, in a spreadsheet that I can look at and for my audience before and after photos that are storytelling in a reel do well.

'cause it's a, you know, shows transformation. Sometimes it's my own, sometimes it's a client and then carousel posts that tap into research that is Hashimoto's related. But that breaks it down in a really. Said in a very, like, I guess if it was to a fifth grader, simple terms, breaks down the research and then says why this is important for you with Hashimoto's.

With a ManyChat automation on the back end of that.

Molly: Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Emily: for sure. Those are the two that do well for me.

Molly: Yeah, and I feel like I've looked at your, it's, it's, when I looked at your account, I actually just looked at it recently. You do such a good job of being so super specific in your messaging too, which is exactly what we were talking about before.

Dr. Emily: So for example, like a lot of women with Hashimoto's have elevated thyroid antibodies. There's research out there of how. An elimination, a IP diet, a very specific kind of elimination diet of like taking out grains and gluten and nightshades. People lost weight. Women with known Hashimoto's lost weight better than just a caloric restricted diet.

The added benefit of they not only lost weight, but they also dropped their thyroid antibodies. Mm-hmm. So I'll take that and be like, listen, weight loss is not just about calories and calories out. Let's do it smarter. Here's how. Here's the research. This is what the study found. This is how I help women do it.

Like actually execute on it.

Molly: Yeah. Because I feel like it could be so overwhelming thinking about eliminating food groups

Dr. Emily: and I'm really trying to hit the women that are like Type A and researchers. And a lot of the women I work with have seen multiple doctors before. I don't want someone to be like, oh, I just got diagnosed.

That's not my person. I want someone further along their journey that's like, I've done gluten-free, I've done the meds, I've done everything. I've done. Hashtag all the things. That's why there's a hashtag for it. And they want an elevated approach. Kind of similar to the clinic. I saw a lot of people who had seen multiple chiropractors and they're like, I want an elevated experience.

I want someone who's gonna like take it to the next level. Yeah. For me and with me, and so. Same thing online. So my messaging is like, I know I wanna target women who have read Isabelle Wentz's book, has listened to all the podcasts, has read the blogs, have tried the things, but it's still not working, and there's a missing piece that they wanna hire me to help figure out to get them better.

Molly: I love that. 'cause I, I'm kind of similar. I stopped promoting any of my stuff on Facebook because I found that they weren't the best students for my program. Yeah. They would get into it and be overwhelmed 'cause they were like, just too far. Like, I want someone who's already on Instagram, they're understanding Instagram, but.

They're just like, like you said, they just need to be like, okay, I'm just getting crickets. Like what am I doing wrong? Let's take it to the next level.

Dr. Emily: And that was part of, that's part of your niche.

Molly: Mm-hmm. But that

Dr. Emily: didn't happen by sitting down and typing it out on a screen that happened through action.

Right. You had to go on Facebook, do a bunch of things, put energy into it and be like, yep. These are my people. Let me direct my energy this way. Yeah. It was like market action.

Molly: Yeah. Like I'm not interested in convincing you why you need to be on Instagram. That, and that's, I've even toyed around with like, oh, should I do like a 1 0 1 series where I'm showing, I'm like, no.

'cause then that's just gonna bring in all the people. Like that's not typically my, my market. Like you can go to YouTube and look up tech tutorials like. All day long. Like I would rather help you with like the big picture marketing things that you're not gonna hear.

Dr. Emily: I mean, same. I don't want someone who has never worked out and never touched a weight.

I want someone who's been doing that and for some reason it's not working. And we need to tweak something. Yeah. I don't wanna have to convince someone like, Hey, you gotta lift weights. And they're like, yeah, do I, I just kinda wanna walk like, that's not my person.

Molly: So like me? No, I'm just kidding. No, I like to lift weights.

I know I need to, I just haven't been as consistent as I need to. Okay, so Emily, how can everyone find you and work with you? There's a couple different ways, and we kind of talked about some of 'em, but let's talk about it again.

Dr. Emily: Yeah, for all the like autoimmune Hashimoto stuff, it's dr emily kyber.com. My Instagram handle is thyroid strong for all the like health coaching autoimmune stuff.

And then for my business coaching, I have a whole separate Instagram handle. Yeah, it's just Dr. Emily ki.

Molly: Yeah,

Dr. Emily: that sounds great. So you're active most on Instagram. Yeah.

Molly: Okay.

Dr. Emily: I'm like starting to grow the YouTube a little bit. Yeah. I have a VA doing all that. Yeah. Because I do have a podcast called Thyroid Strong, so I'll have my VA chop things up, make it YouTube shorts.

Um, yeah.

Molly: Yeah. I know. I'm like, uh, honey, to start getting my, putting my podcast on YouTube because I know it would be like a no brainer. Mm-hmm. I'm like adding a too my to-do list, you know? Well, I don't, I won't do it. I have, I need, I keep meaning to talk to my producer about it. Hailey, when you're listening to this, email me when you're editing this episode, email me about adding it to YouTube.

But thank you so much for taking the time to be on today, and I really think you're doing like super amazing work. I enjoyed our conversation.

Dr. Emily: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Molly: Thank you for listening to Holistic Marketing Simplified. Hey, you know how every podcaster at the very end of their episode asks you to rate and review their podcast?

Well, that's because it's super important. These podcasts take a lot of time and heart and effort to produce, to bring you free information. So in order for me to be able to continue doing that, we need more people to find out about the show. So if you could please just take like two minutes out of your very busy day to leave me a rating and share this on your Instagram Stories and tag at Molly a Cahill, that's C-A-H-I-L-L.

I would greatly, greatly appreciate your support. I know your time is valuable and I can't wait to see you in the next episode.